The show can still be saved

TopGearNorthAmerica

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I have no idea why people want Matt Lebland to stay.
He seems very unnatural in his role, like everything he says is read straight from a cue card.
Remember that he was hired for his name recognition, important for international buyers of TV shows for broadcast. Also an accessible personality for most of the target viewing audience.
Only problem is he's not really a professional car journalist, nor is he perceived as one.
 

rickhamilton620

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To be fair, the first season of the TG reboot into the show we knew and loved wasn't exactly brilliant. It took a bit for the personalities to "gel" and mesh together, even with Jason Dawe being swapped out.

The same is true with the new version, only with 80% more pressure to be perfect.
 

Tzarrim

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To be fair, the first season of the TG reboot into the show we knew and loved wasn't exactly brilliant. It took a bit for the personalities to "gel" and mesh together, even with Jason Dawe being swapped out.

The same is true with the new version, only with 80% more pressure to be perfect.
Back then they had nothing to work with, nothing to copy from and they had to make it up as they went, today's situation is entirely different. Comparing the two is impossible in that regard and actually diminishes CHM's efforts and accomplishments.
 

Four Five Eight

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Back then they had nothing to work with, nothing to copy from and they had to make it up as they went, today's situation is entirely different. Comparing the two is impossible in that regard and actually diminishes CHM's efforts and accomplishments.
Really
 

rickhamilton620

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Back then they had nothing to work with, nothing to copy from and they had to make it up as they went, today's situation is entirely different. Comparing the two is impossible in that regard and actually diminishes CHM's efforts and accomplishments.
What about "old" Top Gear? What about the fact that they had a carryover presenter who carried with him a built in popularity and skill advantage?

To say those weren't inbuilt advantages isn't exactly being fair.

Even with those advantages, it still took time for everyone to really get to know one another and use that knowledge to their advantage to make for a smoother show.

Sure, one could argue that all the current hosts have to do is look at the previous seasons of "new" top gear, but that doesn't change the fact that they are not only learning the format but are also still learning about and learning to get more comfortable around each other as well.
 

Defcon

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Can't compare to the old TG reboot. They literally started from scratch with a brand new format.

This time they inherit the world's largest tv show with a fanatical fan base and a format thats been tested for a decade. The brand recognition of TG is insanely high. It takes a special kind of idiocy to manage to take that and manage to screw it up so royally. The kind of idiocy possessed by Evans and the new management team.

They didn't try to do anything, they just tried to copy things and be as PC as possible. They knew it'd be hard to replace CHM and chose the worst possible man for the job. Blunders like that cannot be forgiven or excused.
 

Tzarrim

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Can't compare to the old TG reboot. They literally started from scratch with a brand new format.

This time they inherit the world's largest tv show with a fanatical fan base and a format thats been tested for a decade. The brand recognition of TG is insanely high. It takes a special kind of idiocy to manage to take that and manage to screw it up so royally. The kind of idiocy possessed by Evans and the new management team.

They didn't try to do anything, they just tried to copy things and be as PC as possible. They knew it'd be hard to replace CHM and chose the worst possible man for the job. Blunders like that cannot be forgiven or excused.
+1
 

thoots

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They need to throw the WHOLE thing into the garbage -- every single person associated with the current abomination -- and either start over from scratch, or just bury it and leave it for dead.
 

Four Five Eight

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I wonder when the last time a lot of people here actually watched Old Top Gear is because I occasionally watch an episode on youtube and this idea that Top Gear is sooo much different is a bit of a farce. Let's just think of what made Top Gear different and basically what they did was take the old show and pad it out to 45 - 50 minutes.
- A studio with an audience which isn't exactly innovation in the realm of television shows.
- An interview with a "celebrity" where the celebrity does a hot lap of their track it's an added twist on what came before but it's just a chat show in the middle of top gear
- The Stig
I could also say the core 3 hosts but reading Porter's book it seems that that wasn't really the plan so much as it was something that just happened. Also from reading Porter's book it wasn't even all that original as a package because another show was planning on doing the exact same thing and accused Top Gear of ripping them off, I forget the name of the show which shows how poorly it did. Driven I think with Mike Brewer and a chap called James May was on it too apparently as I look this up on wikipedia.
This idea that Old Top Gear in no way influenced Top Gear is horse shit, it's 45 series of which something like 35 different people were host at one time or another 3 of which went on to work on Top Gear Jeremy and James being hosts and Andy Wilman being the producer and Tiff who made the odd appearance. Never mind Richard Porter who joined old Top Gear before Jeremy did and was a script editor on Top Gear.
All this "Oh they're just trying to rip off Top Gear in as PC way possible" just sounds like a bunch of crap you've come up with because you're too lazy to list the actual faults with the show.

 

xuri

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Once May come on board in S02 I honestly don't think it took that long for the chemistry to become apparent. The way people talk about it it's as though it took them years and years. It took a few episodes and you had stuff like May/Hammond camping out to test cheap convertibles and laughing their heads off together.

The rest was just an increase in budget and scale. It didn't take that long.
 

kurthest

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To be fair, the first season of the TG reboot into the show we knew and loved wasn't exactly brilliant. It took a bit for the personalities to "gel" and mesh together, even with Jason Dawe being swapped out.

The same is true with the new version, only with 80% more pressure to be perfect.
It was still way better than this Flop Gear.
Jeremy Clarkson + Richard Hammond of 2002 is at least 350% better than Chris Evans and Matt LeBland of 2016.
 

Four Five Eight

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The Top Gear that we know didn't really begin until Series 4 and that's sort of when you get them dipping their feet into the water and seeing new possibilities. The thing that shines in the series before that is the hosts more than anything and there is a reason for that. They're all basically doing films which you'd not have been surprised to see on Old Top Gear and by doing this it basically played to all of the hosts strengths. Jeremy was no stranger to Top Gear, Richard had some experience from Men and Motors as well as his DJ work and James May had also been on various car shows including Top Gear. If you look at James May's first film that's something that's very Old Top Gear. Not to mention their backgrounds in motoring journalism even the Producer was a host on Old Top Gear so they all were familiar with what they were capable of and how to put together a car show.
This new show is taking people who with some exceptions have very different backgrounds and very different strengths and they didn't necessarily seem to take this into account when creating the show. Chris Evans for example probably shouldn't be doing a car review and maybe Matt shouldn't either but Rory and Chris Harris seem to have a knack for it... coincidently both have done it before. Eddie Jordan I think has worked well but he seems to have been used in a way that works with what he's good at. I don't know if you could have Sabine do her own car review but she is good for being an addition to a car review.
We live in this sort of time where things aren't allowed to find their feet, 1 episode in and it's Flop Gear even though Top Gear never really had the sort of ratings we expect of the show until Series 9 or something, it's coming to the end of the first series and the team will have plenty to evaluate while they prepare for series 2 so it'll be telling to see the direction they take if they've learned anything from this series. Hopefully they'll be able to sift through the biased non-sense and morons and find something that can be constructive rather than just think it's all nutters trying bring back clarkson on youtube or whatever.
 
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Hive

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I don't think James May was allowed to leave the studio until Series 6?

That's when it REALLY started getting good <3
Series 10 is when it becomes the "Show of the forever (SOTF)"
 

pete8475

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I don't think James May was allowed to leave the studio until Series 6?

That's when it REALLY started getting good <3
Series 10 is when it becomes the "Show of the forever (SOTF)"
Series 4 episode 1 he does the undercover Rover review. They also do the DB9 vs train race in that same episode.

I'm pretty sure both took place outside of the studio.

Also in series 2 there's some cabriolet stuff with Richard and James on the road together and he's out of the studio for the caravan land speed record segment.

James also does a Triumph TR6 segment in series 2. Outside the studio in the rain. He also does a Perodua Kelisa review that year, oh and an old Bentley segment both outside the studio as well.

EDIT - Don't forget the GM Hywire segment - series 2 episode 9.

EDIT - Series 3 is also loaded with James segments out of the studio. BMW 5 series segment episode 1, BMW M series cars episode 2, Isle of Mann Boxter/S2000/Z4 segment episode 2, and on and on from there. He has a dog in the woods in episode 3.

Continuing on in series 3, James drives the Countach in episode 3.
In episode 4 he reviews a Fiat Panda.
Episode 6 - Aston Martin Vantage segment
Episode 6 - Hilux in the collapsed building
Episode 7 - Best British car segment.
Episode 8 - Aston Martin Lagonda
Episode 9 - Jaguar XJ6
and so on.

So I've skimmed through all of series 2 and 3, plus the first episode of 4, and so far he's out of the studio quite a bit. I suspect this trend will continue through the rest of series 4 and 5.
 
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kurthest

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Series 4 episode 1 he does the undercover Rover review. They also do the DB9 vs train race in that same episode.

I'm pretty sure both took place outside of the studio.

Also in series 2 there's some cabriolet stuff with Richard and James on the road together and he's out of the studio for the caravan land speed record segment.

James also does a Triumph TR6 segment in series 2. Outside the studio in the rain. He also does a Perodua Kelisa review that year, oh and an old Bentley segment both outside the studio as well.

EDIT - Don't forget the GM Hywire segment - series 2 episode 9.

EDIT - Series 3 is also loaded with James segments out of the studio. BMW 5 series segment episode 1, BMW M series cars episode 2, Isle of Mann Boxter/S2000/Z4 segment episode 2, and on and on from there. He has a dog in the woods in episode 3.

Continuing on in series 3, James drives the Countach in episode 3.
In episode 4 he reviews a Fiat Panda.
Episode 6 - Aston Martin Vantage segment
Episode 6 - Hilux in the collapsed building
Episode 7 - Best British car segment.
Episode 8 - Aston Martin Lagonda
Episode 9 - Jaguar XJ6
and so on.

So I've skimmed through all of series 2 and 2, plus the first episode of 4, and so far he's out of the studio quite a bit. I suspect this trend will continue through the rest of series 4 and 5.
He was out of the studio in his very first appearance, reviewing his own Bentley.
 

Four Five Eight

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I don't know if I agree with a lot of that. I think i'll talk a bit about cutting back the presenters. I guess there was the sort of core 3 presenters in the last program and I think if they went with 3 again it would've just been another point people went to so they could criticise it as copying. Maybe they could have a core 3 people but I think the real issue is they need to dole out the responsibilities more evenly. At the moment it's sort of the Chris Evans show and Matt is his sidekick and probably they could shake that up a bit. Like if they brought back the news they could have the other presenters do it like they did on the most recent Extra Gear. You could have Eddie Jordan, Chris Harris and Rory Reid do the news just as an example and sometimes have Matt or Sabine sit in on it.
 

Kiskaloo

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(The Telegraph has offered) 8 ways to save top gear. I agree with them mostly.
Honestly, I think "Cut back on the number of presenters" makes sense. Promote Chris Harris to be part of the three-man team, but keep Rory around for "Extra Gear", which I think is a good show and a role I think he is good at.

Eddie just doesn't really have a purpose on the show and neither does Sabine when they have The Stig.
 
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