Unveiled: The Teslerr Model 3

Isn't it supposed to go to Union Station in LA? That is infinitely better for connections to the LA Metro than the airport. Since driving in the LA area is annoying at the best of times, the subway is a good choice unless a) you won't be caught dead on public transport, in which case the HST probably isn't for you anyway or b) there really is no way to get from a metro station to your destination on foot or by bus/taxi/ride-share/other.

Nobody takes Metro with luggage unless they want to be mugged and lose all their stuff. It's *that* kind of public transit system. The buses are even worse.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.scpr.org/news/2016/12/01/66696/metro-board-takes-up-policing-in-wake-of-continuin/

LA policing ranked unfavorably in audit

The move to beef up security follows an audit of Metro's policing, conducted last year by the agency's Office of the Inspector General, that compared Los Angeles unfavorably to other major transit systems.

While it noted the crime and emergency call rate was not high, the audit showed L.A. Metro had a higher rate of serious crimes in 2014 than Chicago, Washington, D.C., Boston and Philadelphia.

Only San Francisco?s BART system had a higher incidence of crimes, although the majority of those cases involved petty theft while L.A.?s rate of violent crimes, including homicide and rape, was higher.
 
Nobody takes Metro with luggage unless they want to be mugged and lose all their stuff. It's *that* kind of public transit system. The buses are even worse.
I have done so several times and never got mugged, not even while making the connection to the airport at Willowbrook. Same for my fianc?e who isn't exactly what you'd call "burly". Since you're positive that "nobody takes it", what's your experience with the system?
 
I imagine that is similar to my local BART (mentioned in the above quote as being the most petty crime ridden system) . They spent tons of money to expand it to the airport. A handful of people take it, but it's not terribly popular. I get on the train most mornings that makes its first and last stop at the airport. It's virtually empty all day, every day. People just don't seem to use it very often. If my options are finding a ride to the train because daily parking at the train stain is expensive and nor secure, or just taking a cab/Uber/ lyft/ shuttle, or getting a ride all the way there...the commuter/public transport train is last If I've got luggage.
 
Nobody takes Metro with luggage unless they want to be mugged and lose all their stuff. It's *that* kind of public transit system. The buses are even worse.

Name a public transit system in the U.S. that is not like that. I've used the LA Metro a number of times and haven't found it to be any worse than the metro systems of SF, Chicago, New York, London, or Paris. In my experience, all public metro systems require a heightened level of awareness.

...and for whatever it's worth: $797-million security plan approved to shift law enforcement duties for more than half the public transit system to the Los Angeles and Long Beach police departments
 
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Name a public transit system in the U.S. that is not like that. I've used the LA Metro a number of times and haven't found it to be any worse than the metro systems of SF, Chicago, New York, London, or Paris. In my experience, all public metro systems require a heightened level of awareness.

...and for whatever it's worth: $797-million security plan approved to shift law enforcement duties for more than half the public transit system to the Los Angeles and Long Beach police departments

Mass transit just plain sux no matter how you slice it
 
I use the Seattle Metro (Sound Transit subway) near daily now, I've rarely had issues.
 
I use the Seattle Metro (Sound Transit subway) near daily now, I've rarely had issues.

So if picks you up right outside your house and drops you off at the exact place you wanna go to? You never have to wait, there are never any other people on it, and it goes everywhere you might possibly want to go?
 
Why get so worked up over the fact that it works for some people?
 
Guys, this thread is about a new electric car, not about public transport or the pros and cons between trains and planes, isn't it? :?
 
So if picks you up right outside your house and drops you off at the exact place you wanna go to? You never have to wait, there are never any other people on it, and it goes everywhere you might possibly want to go?
Two things: parking and maintenance. With public transport, you don't have to care about either and you can use a highly flexible and proven personal transport solution to get from a train station or bus stop to the final destination: your feet.

Why get so worked up over the fact that it works for some people?
Because it's communisticalish.
 
I'll weigh in on the public transport thing... the public transport in Germany is widely considered one of the better systems, with wide reach, reasonably good vehicles, and connections being mostly on time. I live near and work in Frankfurt, a city with a vast local transport network that allows to get from anywhere to anywhere at any time.

And I still hate it with a passion. Despite parking situation being difficult in the city center and traffic being really bad at usual rush hour times, I much prefer taking my car to and from work. My reasons are as follows, in this order:

- Time. Even when perfectly on time, my connection with the U-Bahn or S-Bahn from work to home takes between 40-45 minutes, including walking or bus connection time to stations (which on both ends amounts to roughly the same). I've had rides of over an hour, when something happened on the U-Bahn. In heavy traffic (multiple stop-and-go jams) the drive takes the same at most, and with light to no traffic, I can make in under 20 minutes.
- Comfort. In the U-Bahn, I have a small seat, headphones for music, and am usually surrounded by a crowd of people. In the car I'm alone, comfortable, and don't have to turn the music up to drown out the train and crowd noise.
- Flexibility. I don't have to stick to any certain time, just get up and go whenever. I can spontaneously decide to go wherever before or after work, and don't have to worry about connections, changing lines. I can also take stuff with me that's more than a bag/backpack.
- Finally, cost. Public transport here is expensive. I used it a lot while I was a student and had a very cheap student ticket. But now, buying full-price yearly tickets would cost me nearly the exact same as the fuel I spend for work commute. Monthly and weekly tickets are more expensive than that. Total ownership cost for the car is, of course, ultimately higher than that - but I have my car anyway, it's not like I would give it up if I decided to always commute on public transport.

This is all of course specific to my situation. Obviously public transport works for many others, otherwise the U-Bahn wouldn't be nearly as packed every morning as it is.

Also, on-topic - the Model 3 will improve my commute a lot, once it finally rolls around :) By my estimations, the electricity cost will be at ~1/3rd of my current fuel costs. Also no tax. And I'm quite excited for the Autopilot. I've driven several cars with adaptive cruise control and various lane keeping assists, and having a combination of both that actually works properly would further relax my commute significantly. Not talking about any higher-level self-driving here - that something I'm not expecting to be legal in Europe during my ownership of the first-gen Model 3; just what the currently available Teslas offer would already make me quite happy.
 
The Teslerr Model 3

Two things: parking and maintenance. With public transport, you don't have to care about either and you can use a highly flexible and proven personal transport solution to get from a train station or bus stop to the final destination: your feet.
Parking highly depends on destination but even in the shit show that is NYC it is typically at least on par with trains/buses distance wise.

Maintenance: I still have a need for a car, there are destinations that would take me 2 hours in mass transit and 30 mins by car, maybe an hour in traffic. Hell here is an example my wife's office is 5 minutes away by car, say 20 with looking for parking + walking. Easily 40 minutes by train and requires a connect. There are often times when i have to carry a lot of cargo for which trains don't work.


Because it's communisticalish.

Because it always sux
 
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I'll weigh in on the public transport thing... the public transport in Germany is widely considered one of the better systems, with wide reach, reasonably good vehicles, and connections being mostly on time. I live near and work in Frankfurt, a city with a vast local transport network that allows to get from anywhere to anywhere at any time.

And I still hate it with a passion. Despite parking situation being difficult in the city center and traffic being really bad at usual rush hour times, I much prefer taking my car to and from work. My reasons are as follows, in this order:

- Time. Even when perfectly on time, my connection with the U-Bahn or S-Bahn from work to home takes between 40-45 minutes, including walking or bus connection time to stations (which on both ends amounts to roughly the same). I've had rides of over an hour, when something happened on the U-Bahn. In heavy traffic (multiple stop-and-go jams) the drive takes the same at most, and with light to no traffic, I can make in under 20 minutes.
- Comfort. In the U-Bahn, I have a small seat, headphones for music, and am usually surrounded by a crowd of people. In the car I'm alone, comfortable, and don't have to turn the music up to drown out the train and crowd noise.
- Flexibility. I don't have to stick to any certain time, just get up and go whenever. I can spontaneously decide to go wherever before or after work, and don't have to worry about connections, changing lines. I can also take stuff with me that's more than a bag/backpack.
- Finally, cost. Public transport here is expensive. I used it a lot while I was a student and had a very cheap student ticket. But now, buying full-price yearly tickets would cost me nearly the exact same as the fuel I spend for work commute. Monthly and weekly tickets are more expensive than that. Total ownership cost for the car is, of course, ultimately higher than that - but I have my car anyway, it's not like I would give it up if I decided to always commute on public transport.

This is all of course specific to my situation. Obviously public transport works for many others, otherwise the U-Bahn wouldn't be nearly as packed every morning as it is.

Also, on-topic - the Model 3 will improve my commute a lot, once it finally rolls around :) By my estimations, the electricity cost will be at ~1/3rd of my current fuel costs. Also no tax. And I'm quite excited for the Autopilot. I've driven several cars with adaptive cruise control and various lane keeping assists, and having a combination of both that actually works properly would further relax my commute significantly. Not talking about any higher-level self-driving here - that something I'm not expecting to be legal in Europe during my ownership of the first-gen Model 3; just what the currently available Teslas offer would already make me quite happy.

This guy gets it.
 
Do you get the difference between these two statements?


It's yuge. The yugest ever. ;)

We have the best differences! Thing is that mass transit never truly works for anyone, it just sort of works for many. The biggest reason these systems exist and are used is cost. If Uber cost as much as mass transit no one would ever use MT. Of course that also assumes ample infrastructure so that everyone is not stuck in gridlock
 
Thing is that mass transit never truly works for anyone, it just sort of works for many.
Why do you keep stating your opinion as fact? Mass transit works very well for millions of people who would otherwise face the inevitable collapse of the road infrastructure in their cities. Just look at the wonderful road traffic in the LA area to see what happens without proper mass transit.

The biggest reason these systems exist and are used is cost. If Uber cost as much as mass transit no one would ever use MT.
Again: opinion does not equal fact. I love many aspects of the mass transit systems that I use most days, that doesn't mean everybody else does; the same goes for your hatred of the concept.

Of course that also assumes ample infrastructure so that everyone is not stuck in gridlock
In other words: if we build roads for trillions of dollars instead of mass transit for billions, my theory may just stand. You cannot build your way out of congestion; it's been tried many times and it has never worked long-term.
 
Why do you keep stating your opinion as fact? Mass transit works very well for millions of people who would otherwise face the inevitable collapse of the road infrastructure in their cities. Just look at the wonderful road traffic in the LA area to see what happens without proper mass transit.
Because it's not an opinion it is a fact. No matter how great a mass transit system is, it will always have the following characteristics:
- Pre-defined routes
- Pre-defined schedules
- Pre-defined stops
- Lack of private space
- Lack of fault tolerance (mostly applies to rail based)

You simply cannot get around that, even in NYC with a pretty decent mass transit system and quite a bit of traffic it is often faster to drive than take MT. There are very few times when it's reverse and mostly applies to certain parts of Manhattan, though there it's often faster to walk than anything else really.

Again: opinion does not equal fact. I love many aspects of the mass transit systems that I use most days, that doesn't mean everybody else does; the same goes for your hatred of the concept.
So you are saying that if you had the ability to be driven around in a car you would choose mass transit?

In other words: if we build roads for trillions of dollars instead of mass transit for billions, my theory may just stand. You cannot build your way out of congestion; it's been tried many times and it has never worked long-term.
Stop sticking millions of people into small ass spaces and congestion goes away very quickly. Rochester, NY rarely has any traffic and it is the second or third biggest city in the state. Boston's big dig had a very good effect on congestion in that city, I've driven there before and after. Also keep in mind that roads are universal by design, they can be used for any type of traffic, including buses, subways are only useful for moving people and nothing else so no matter how many trains you build you will STILL need to have an extensive road network.

It's exact same problem as BEVs, they sorta work for some people but basically don't.
 
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And I'm quite excited for the Autopilot. I've driven several cars with adaptive cruise control and various lane keeping assists, and having a combination of both that actually works properly would further relax my commute significantly.

Tesla Autopilot? Working Properly?

:lol:
 
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