Unveiled: The Teslerr Model 3

[narf]

I'm very much with you on that, funnily enough I was going to mention that I don't see the point of anything other than a normal push-to-open in any car. Also do you not remember my rants against push button start?

I like some things that aren't strictly necessary, keyless open and start are one of those. Unnecessary, no doubt. I like a car with colour, most unnecessary thing... ... ...in the world I like the unnecessary web portal to send destinations to my satnav, though it could be improved upon. I could go on. Hell, you could easily argue having a convertible is, yes, unnecessary

 

[JohnK]

I might like the car more if I knew that my tax money was not going into rebates to make this car more affordable.

 

[prizrak]

I like some things that aren't strictly necessary, keyless open and start are one of those. Unnecessary, no doubt. I like a car with colour, most unnecessary thing... ... ...in the world I like the unnecessary web portal to send destinations to my satnav, though it could be improved upon. I could go on. Hell, you could easily argue having a convertible is, yes, unnecessary

It really depends on what it is, push button start is dumb, foot activated lift gate is nice. Something like this doesn't really serve any useful purpose and is just another thing that could fail. I vaguely remember something like this breaking on a super car of some sort in top gear

 

[narf]

It really depends on what it is, push button start is dumb, foot activated lift gate is nice. Something like this doesn't really serve any useful purpose and is just another thing that could fail. I vaguely remember something like this breaking on a super car of some sort in top gear

And yet, foot activated lift gates are entirely unnecessary

How is push button start just another thing that could fail and serves no useful purpose? Not having to take out my keys is a useful purpose. Open door with one hand, carry laptop bag or drink or whatever in the other, enter car, no need to fumble around for the keys while seated or to keep them in one of the already occupied hands while getting in.
As for failure, yeah the battery in your fob is another thing that can fail... but there's always the backup of using the traditional immobilizer RFID chip to authorize the starter button, no fob battery required. I doubt the actual button will fail any more than the traditional lock-operated switch would. As long as your car has enough 12V and dino juice it'll go vroom.

 

[marcos_eirik]

And yet, foot activated lift gates are entirely unnecessary

How is push button start just another thing that could fail and serves no useful purpose? Not having to take out my keys is a useful purpose. Open door with one hand, carry laptop bag or drink or whatever in the other, enter car, no need to fumble around for the keys while seated or to keep them in one of the already occupied hands while getting in.
As for failure, yeah the battery in your fob is another thing that can fail... but there's always the backup of using the traditional immobilizer RFID chip to authorize the starter button, no fob battery required. I doubt the actual button will fail any more than the traditional lock-operated switch would. As long as your car has enough 12V and dino juice it'll go vroom.

True, I have driven my parents' Model X a few times now, and it opens the drivers door when you walk up to it with the key in your pocket. Once you're seated, it closes the door when you push the brake pedal, the car is also "on" when you press the brake pedal. Is this necessary...? No, but I find it to be convenient, if not a bit gimmicky. Don't like it? It can be disabled.

 

[narf]

... and I'm sure there's a backup way to unlock and start the car if your fob's battery is empty.

 

[prizrak]

The Teslerr Model 3

And yet, foot activated lift gates are entirely unnecessary

How is push button start just another thing that could fail and serves no useful purpose? Not having to take out my keys is a useful purpose. Open door with one hand, carry laptop bag or drink or whatever in the other, enter car, no need to fumble around for the keys while seated or to keep them in one of the already occupied hands while getting in.
As for failure, yeah the battery in your fob is another thing that can fail... but there's always the backup of using the traditional immobilizer RFID chip to authorize the starter button, no fob battery required. I doubt the actual button will fail any more than the traditional lock-operated switch would. As long as your car has enough 12V and dino juice it'll go vroom.

I was talking about motorized fuel filler cap being another thing to fail.

Push button start means people forget to turn off their cars, I have personally seen that happen three times in about as many years, considering my limited ability to see something like that that is a pretty damn common occurrence.

As far as fumbling for your keys, mine are in my hand whenever I'm approaching my car and pressing a button on a fob is no more complicated than touching a sensor on a door*.

*Personal anecdote but every time I tried to get into my friend's BMW with one those proximity keys it would not recognize it if I wasn't basically humping the handle. Most of the time I would just end up using the unlock key. This was a week old car before you say something about battery being flat.

Really my main problem with push button start is that it's a solution for non existent problem.

 

[narf]

Push button start means people forget to turn off their cars, I have personally seen that happen three times in about as many years, considering my limited ability to see something like that that is a pretty damn common occurrence.

People gonna people
Though technically, push button start could allow for the car to shut itself off when you leave it running and lock the door using the door sensor. Dunno if any cars actually do that though.

As far as fumbling for your keys, mine are in my hand whenever I'm approaching my car and pressing a button on a fob is no more complicated than touching a sensor on a door*.

Mine aren't, ever. When leaving home I put them in my pants pocket at the door, and they only come back out at the door when I return.
Pressing a fob adds one more step to the process, technically that is more complicated you need to grab the door handle in both cases... assuming you have a car that works as it should, obviously.

 

[prizrak]

People gonna people
Though technically, push button start could allow for the car to shut itself off when you leave it running and lock the door using the door sensor. Dunno if any cars actually do that though.

For sure not Nissans or Priuses, can't speak for any other ones. But see now you are adding complexity to the system which works much better with a simple key to turn, much harder to lock that in a running car (though not impossible, have done it myself)

Mine aren't, ever. When leaving home I put them in my pants pocket at the door, and they only come back out at the door when I return.
Pressing a fob adds one more step to the process, technically that is more complicated you need to grab the door handle in both cases... assuming you have a car that works as it should, obviously.

Again assuming they are working correctly, look at my experience with BMW proximity keys. Then you have to consider things like loading up the kids, most of my driving doesn't start with me coming up to the driver's door but rather one of the rear passenger doors. So now you need to have these sensors in all the doors for it to work or you are using the fob. Then there are cases when the driver (or person with the fob) is not the first one to the car, so now everyone has to wait for the driver to get to the car or you are yet again using a fob.

 

[GRtak]

I would argue that having a push button start removes complexity. You still have a switch with a key, on top of the cylinder for the key, the rod to actuate between them, the bushings, etc etc. The simple button must weigh less too.

 

[prizrak]

I would argue that having a push button start removes complexity. You still have a switch with a key, on top of the cylinder for the key, the rod to actuate between them, the bushings, etc etc. The simple button must weigh less too.

It's a more complex system with all the sensors and controllers not required by a simpler lock and key with immobilizer. More links in the chain more stuff to break.

 

[GRtak]

It's a more complex system with all the sensors and controllers not required by a simpler lock and key with immobilizer. More links in the chain more stuff to break.

On a modern car, the vast majority of those sensors are already there.

 

[prizrak]

On a modern car, the vast majority of those sensors are already there.

Pretty sure my modern cars don't have any RFID sensors in them, nor would any other car that doesn't have an option of push button start, they are simply unnecessary.

 

[GRtak]

Oh my gawd! That sensor weighs as much as the key cylinder. It will ruin everything!/ sarcasm

What will you do when key start goes away?

 

[prizrak]

Oh my gawd! That sensor weighs as much as the key cylinder. It will ruin everything!/ sarcasm

What will you do when key start goes away?

I don't care about the weight, not sure why you keep harping on that, I care about unnecessary complexity and parts availability down the line. I have no plans to ever get rid of the Mustang, you lot can have your self driving electric pods of push button misery.

EDIT: I also care about security, there have been a metric crap ton of exploits uncovered in all of this extraneous technology. At least in the case of my cars while you can open them remotely you would need to bypass a lock and key immobilizer, in anything push button as soon as you have the transponder frequencies and codes you have the entire car. I won't even get into the idiocy of always on internet connections and ability to do things to your car with a phone app.

 

[NecroJoe]

Those push-to-open latches are still multi-part, spring-loaded mechanisms that requires you to press on your painted body work where's there's likely dust/dirt that could scratch, or possibly bird shit.

I have a mechanical lever in my car that I've already had too have adgusted once and I'm less than 25k miles.

 

[prizrak]

Those push-to-open latches are still multi-part, spring-loaded mechanisms that requires you to press on your painted body work where's there's likely dust/dirt that could scratch, or possibly bird shit.

I have a mechanical lever in my car that I've already had too have adgusted once and I'm less than 25k miles.

Never had any problems, my Subaru had a lever activated one from inside the cabin (which I alwasy forgot to hit before getting out) and never had any issues. That was a 16 year old car with 150ish K on it, I'm with you on touching the painted part though. Xterra has a little plastic handle you pull on right on the door

For your other point, it is cheaper and easier to readjust/fix a cable or a spring than it is an electric actuator.

 

[eizbaer]

I'll give you that, I don't see the need to have that piece of plastic lifted by an electric motor. Why not make it blood spring-actuated or something. It's even covered in faux-taillight, so you're not ruining the paint when touching it to open (only your fingers, maybe) Seems like they could've simplified that a little more. Still though, with other manufacturers, I feel the charge port doors (mostly hidden under the logo) just feel super cheap and flimsy, so at least testla win in that regard

 

[prizrak]

I'll give you that, I don't see the need to have that piece of plastic lifted by an electric motor. Why not make it blood spring-actuated or something. It's even covered in faux-taillight, so you're not ruining the paint when touching it to open (only your fingers, maybe) Seems like they could've simplified that a little more. Still though, with other manufacturers, I feel the charge port doors (mostly hidden under the logo) just feel super cheap and flimsy, so at least testla win in that regard

To be honest what I want to see is induction charging be standardized for BEVs, plugging into an outlet seems outdated considering all the futuristic stuff they are going for.

 

[eizbaer]

To be honest what I want to see is induction charging be standardized for BEVs, plugging into an outlet seems outdated considering all the futuristic stuff they are going for.

Yeah, it is the most customer friendly approach, at least for at-home charging where high power isn't as much of a requirement (because the car is gonna be standing around for hours anyway). Just have the car put itself in the garage and forget about it... that's always something that struck me as weird with tesla self-parking: you still have to plug the thing in yourself anyway, might as well drive it in there!

For high power charging applications I don't think there's any chance we'll see inductive charging. The real high power applications (to be deployed in the next years, nothing out there yet) even need watercooled cables and connectors...