The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

prizrak;n3554625 said:
I never said there was a threat of incursion or that requesting asylum (wtf from?) was illegal. All I am saying that deploying military at the border is very much not. Additionally I very much doubt that the Pentagon could refuse a direct order from the Commander-in-chief, the title kind of implies that...

Military officers are obligated to decline illegal orders, which is what the Pentagon did by refusing to deploy weapons systems to aid law enforcement.
 
Blind_Io;n3554635 said:
[...] Military officers are obligated to decline illegal orders, which is what the Pentagon did by refusing to deploy weapons systems to aid law enforcement.

There are some unclear/contradictory news reports out there on that and what that means. Is that still developing maybe?
 
Blind_Io;n3554635 said:
Military officers are obligated to decline illegal orders, which is what the Pentagon did by refusing to deploy weapons systems to aid law enforcement.

What law enforcement are they expected to do? I fail to see any kind of legal reasoning from either you or GR beyond "it's illegal!!!" as to why deploying troops at your border is illegal.
 
Blah not being able to edit sux, but there is also a mix up on who is asking for this, request seems to be coming from DHS not POTUS. DHS can ask and be denied, POTUS can order bit of a difference there.
 
Do you realize that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor? So we need to call out troops for a petty crime?

This is what the Trump Administration on the border has, and will be doing again.

 
GRtak;n3554645 said:
Do you realize that crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor? So we need to call out troops for a petty crime?

This is what the Trump Administration on the border has, and will be doing again.


And if the troops were supposed to arrest people crossing the border you woulda had an argument, but they are being deployed to stop people from crossing, so again what’s illegal here?
 
The military is not a police force. It is also illegal for them to enforce a domestic policy, which this clearly is.

This is one of those things where we clearly see this differently, and I am tired of having a circular argument.
 
GRtak;n3554671 said:
The military is not a police force. It is also illegal for them to enforce a domestic policy, which this clearly is.

This is one of those things where we clearly see this differently, and I am tired of having a circular argument.

You have yet to make an argument as to how shoring up border security with the military is a domestic policy issue.

On the video, family separation was a horrific thing, the way immigration court works and how the current laws are enforced is quite horrible as well. I never disputed any of that, I personally think that immigration is a net positive because immigrants tend to be a lot more driven than those who stay put.
 
Immigration is a domestic policy, not a war. It is also a misdemeanor for somebody to cross the border illegally. So let's just call out the SWAT team for every stolen candy bar.

Have you seen how much this could cost by the end of the year? $200 million dollars. Hell, for that much, we could send them all first class to a country that would accept them, and pay for the first years rent and still have change left over.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7bd24f10522a


What the Trump administration is doing is flat out sadistic when it comes to immigration and child separation.
 
GRtak;n3554673 said:
Immigration is a domestic policy, not a war.
They are not being sent to enforce immigration policy, they are there to secure the border and stop people from getting in. That's a pretty normal use for the military in just about any country.

It is also a misdemeanor for somebody to cross the border illegally. So let's just call out the SWAT team for every stolen candy bar.
I'm not arguing that this is overkill but the screams of "omfg illegal" are at minimum questionable

Have you seen how much this could cost by the end of the year? $200 million dollars. Hell, for that much, we could send them all first class to a country that would accept them, and pay for the first years rent and still have change left over.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7bd24f10522a


What the Trump administration is doing is flat out sadistic when it comes to immigration and child separation.
Not arguing against any of this, but at the end of the day he can direct troops the way he sees fit. I would have just asked border states to mobilize NG once the caravan is close enough to become an issue but no one asks me.
 
:wall::wall::wall::wall:


They are not there to secure anything more than the support of the Republican base.

This is not an invading force. These are people that are desperate. If they make it through the asylum process, they should be allowed in.
 
And if they want to swarm and enter by force?
 
GRtak;n3554675 said:
:wall::wall::wall::wall:


They are not there to secure anything more than the support of the Republican base.
Apparently they are there to provide logistical support but that's beside the point.

This is not an invading force. These are people that are desperate. If they make it through the asylum process, they should be allowed in.
Sure I don't disagree with that but...
gaasc said:
And if they want to swarm and enter by force?
I would think seeing actual regular military rather than a few ICE/BP folks would be a pretty good deterrent.
 
As I pointed out before, if the Border Patrol and ICE can't combine forces with their combined 40,000 people and contain this caravan, they will have committed a misdemeanor. If they truly become unruly, there is stuff called tear gas that will drive them back.
 
As I pointed out before, if the Border Patrol and ICE can't combine forces with their combined 40,000 people and contain this caravan, they will have committed a misdemeanor. If they truly become unruly, there is stuff called tear gas that will drive them back.
 
Hey, fun fact. It is 100% legal to present yourself at the border to seek asylum. So far there is no reason to mobilize anyone, much less the military, for a group that is still months away.
 
I can't get the picture of Ned Beatty stuttering out "INVASION" from the movie 1941.

Why can't they come and go through the asylum process? Are they really such a Clear and Present Danger?
 
Blind_Io;n3554693 said:
Hey, fun fact. It is 100% legal to present yourself at the border to seek asylum. So far there is no reason to mobilize anyone, much less the military, for a group that is still months away.

I’m fairly certain no one is going to shoot anyone on sight as soon as they show up near the border. This is a deterrent, you show up at the border and see a bunch of army dudes you gonna think twice about trying to rush it. Keeping in mind that there was already violence at a border from the caravan.

As far as it being premature, maybe it is, I don’t know much about military logistics and how quickly it can mobilize.
 
Top