The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

TC

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LeVeL;n3555431 said:
Why is it that Schumer, Obama, Hillary - they've all openly and vocally supported border security, including physical barriers, but now suddenly they're opposed? My only explanation is Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Just partisan hack politicians with no integrity, nothing new. Even Bernie Sanders said he wouldn't fund a border barrier, even if it meant amnesty for the dreamers. These people couldn't give a shit about anything except their own personal power and bank accounts.
 

GRtak

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There is a difference between border security and "the wall". Security is effective methods and tools used to thwart incursions. The wall is something that will be easily bypassed and poor neighbor behavior.
 

TC

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I can't help but notice that most (all) secure areas have walls. Apparently physical barriers do work.

The dishonest (imo) argument that because physical barriers aren't completely infallible, that means they are unnecessary and pointless, is not something I accept.

As for being poor neighbors, oh well. I've lived my entire life within half a tank driving distance of the US-Mexico border. Mexico has a lot of problems and they unquestionably bleed over into our country. I don't think putting up a fence makes us the bad neighbors in this situation.
 

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LeVeL;n3555431 said:
My only explanation is Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Honest question: why are these buzzwords and mantras always so bad?
 

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TC;n3555445 said:
The dishonest (imo) argument that because physical barriers aren't completely infallible, that means they are unnecessary and pointless, is not something I accept.
I find it funny that whenever gun control comes up and we point out that measures that are being proposed are not likely to work, we get accused of not caring about human lives and that even if 1 life is saved its worth it. And yet on subject of the border wall the other side is always saying "well it won't stop a 100% then why bother?" I'm good with meeting in the middle on this one. If it doesn't work 100% we don't bother trying. So repeal all gun control laws, all speeding laws, all regulations, etc...
 

GRtak

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The pro gun side won't even support real background checks(the republicans also work to keep funding for the actual checks as low as possible), and that could help. Start fining and, or arresting people that should not be buying guns when they do attempt to do so.


This wall did not work and there was a decent chance you could get killed trying to get near it.

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GRtak

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So much has happened in the last few weeks. The shutdown is the biggest thing, and is now the longest in US history.
 

LeVeL

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Remember when....
-Chuck Schumer co-sponsored a bill to build a physical barrier along the border in 2013?
-Nancy Pelosi supported that bill?
-Obama piraised that bill as “the most aggressive border security plan in our history” before signing it?
-When Hillary Clinton supported a physical barrier along the border both when she was a senator and during the 2016 campaign?
-When suddenly they were all against a physical barrier along the border and Pelosi called it "immoral"?

This is one of the finest displays of Trump Derangement Syndrome, even better than when Obama tries to take credit for the economy's current success.
 

prizrak

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Remember when....
-Chuck Schumer co-sponsored a bill to build a physical barrier along the border in 2013?
-Nancy Pelosi supported that bill?
-Obama piraised that bill as “the most aggressive border security plan in our history” before signing it?
-When Hillary Clinton supported a physical barrier along the border both when she was a senator and during the 2016 campaign?
-When suddenly they were all against a physical barrier along the border and Pelosi called it "immoral"?

This is one of the finest displays of Trump Derangement Syndrome, even better than when Obama tries to take credit for the economy's current success.
To be honest I don't think the wall is that good of an idea, mainly because unless it's properly manned its useless and if we have enough people to man it it becomes pretty much unnecessary.
 

LeVeL

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Remember when Trump said Mexico would pay for that wall?
Did anyone actually think Mexico would cut us a check? I assumed it was obvious that they would pay for it INDIRECTLY but maybe it wasn't so obvious to some people.


They supported a partial barrier, not a 1600 mile long one.
Schumer's bill allocated $8b for 700mi of border barriers. Trump wants $5b for 700-900mi.


To be honest I don't think the wall is that good of an idea, mainly because unless it's properly manned its useless and if we have enough people to man it it becomes pretty much unnecessary.
Dozens of countries have border barriers. Example: Israel. Before they had a border wall, tens of thousands crossed the border illegally. After they built the wall, around a dozen. Not 1200 or 12000, but just 12 people. Walls work!!! They can't be our ONLY measure for border security but they absolutely help.
 

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Schumer's bill allocated $8b for 700mi of border barriers. Trump wants $5b for 700-900mi.
Eh that estimate is way too low, I came across an article from a civil engineer explaining in depth why it's too low. TL;DR version is that the bid is only to build the wall itself, not all the extra shit that goes into it like environmental assessment, making sure there is drainage to avoid flooding, etc...

Dozens of countries have border barriers. Example: Israel. Before they had a border wall, tens of thousands crossed the border illegally. After they built the wall, around a dozen. Not 1200 or 12000, but just 12 people. Walls work!!! They can't be our ONLY measure for border security but they absolutely help.
You are comparing countries of vastly different size and geography. Aside from the fact that I'm sure IDF patrols that wall much more frequently than our border patrol can (given current man power), Israel doesn't have big ass deserts along its border.

On the other side of the wall equation, it didn't work out for the Chinese ;)

All I'm saying is that building a wall by itself isn't going to make much of a difference, it has to be manned, the waterways have to be watched, the coast line has to be patrolled, etc...
 

LeVeL

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I don't disagree that we need more than just the wall. But I also think that a wall is a must and would absolutely help border security efforts. Schumer, Pelosi, Obama, and Clinton all agreed with that at one point but now they've caught TDS and developed amnesia.
 

GRtak

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That is not what Trump wants though. He has said more than once that every inch of the border should have a wall.

It doesn't matter though, this stunt is going to help sink him. His poll rating are dropping like an egg from a wall, he is losing advisors, and still has to deal with the investigation and the information that continues to come out.
 
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