The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

GRtak

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I still want to know why the Republicans did not give Trump his wall when they held both houses of Congress.
 

Blind_Io

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What is "Because the GOP has no platform other than to be a foil to the Democrats"?

I'll take obstructionist politics for $1,000, Alex.
 

LeVeL

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Where is the "drop in the bucket" when it comes to projects that aren't GOP pets? They will fight tooth and nail to defund NPR and Planned Parenthood (which aren't even direct payments, but payments for services via Medicaid and Title IX), which truly is a drop in the bucket. But this $5 Billion dollar down-payment on a wall that even border security experts agree is a waste is somehow okay? That $5 Billion is not the final price tag - the government hasn't even paid for the studies of what the project would end up costing, there's no plans for it, no bidding has been done for the total cost, no contract awarded, hell, the environmental impact study alone will probably be tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

So how can you say that the cost of the wall is a "drop in the bucket" when you don't even know what the cost is? This has been brought up before and you never answer the question; so I put it to you now: What is the final cost of the wall going to be and where are you getting that number?
I didn't say anything about NPR or PP and neither has Trump in his wall deal discussions. They're completely irrelevant here.

You've got a stick up your ass about the cost and we've already discussed this - Trump's request is in line with Schumer asked for back in '13. I'm not going to get into a stupid argument over the exact costs here - it's a dumb argument. If you really think that $5.7b out of a $4.4t budget isn't enough, let's make it $10b. Or $20b. Idfk, it's still a tiny percentage.


You're off by an order of magnitude.
It's 1 773rd of the total budget. Do the math.
 

Blind_Io

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I didn't say anything about NPR or PP and neither has Trump in his wall deal discussions. They're completely irrelevant here.

You've got a stick up your ass about the cost and we've already discussed this - Trump's request is in line with Schumer asked for back in '13. I'm not going to get into a stupid argument over the exact costs here - it's a dumb argument. If you really think that $5.7b out of a $4.4t budget isn't enough, let's make it $10b. Or $20b. Idfk, it's still a tiny percentage.
The GOP has a stick up their ass about these small social programs, like Planned Parenthood, that deliver measurable cost-effective outcomes - and the argument is always the same "responsible fiscal policy". Where is the "responsible fiscal policy" now? They apparently have no problem spending a hundred times that amount on the beginning of a boondogle that experts agree will be a legal quagmire of property law and still not solve the problem it's trying to address. What happened to the party line of "reduce spending"? They will fight tooth and nail over a hundredth of a penny when it comes to Planned Parenthood because of "fiscal responsibility" but are perfectly fine with $5.7 Billion dollars that won't even cover the wall project or even come close.

Bringing up funding for Planned Parenthood is demonstrating GOP hypocrisy - you do not get to determine what is "off limits" in the discussion, as much as it would serve your needs. You are not the only one who can bring up other points for scope and context.

Not knowing the cost is not a "dumb" argument, it's entirely central to the cost-benefit analysis. You keep saying it's a tiny percentage, but you don't know what the cost will be - you have no fucking idea, no one does. Even the most conservative estimates are more than 10 times what Trump is asking for. What he want's just earnest money on a much larger and ongoing expenditure. You say the argument is "dumb" because you don't have an answer
It's 1 773rd of the total budget. Do the math.
You must be immune to the irony, we can't "do the math" because the cost is currently unknown. You are just making shit up, point to a final price tag and then we can talk about doing the math, until then, you are only talking about earnest money, which is not the end cost.
 

LeVeL

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Ok, the wall will cost 10x what Trump is asking for - a whopping 0.1% of the federal budget. The horror... the horror... Remember, even Schumer and Pelosi have supported this!

As far as PP and such go - I'm not a die-hard GOP party-liner. You're having a discussion with me, not Paul Ryan, so why bring PP into this? I couldn't care less how PP is funded, I'm just talking about the wall here.


As an aside, the latest NY abortion law is f*cked up, imo.
 

Punisher Bass

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In Nogales, AZ, a town that already has a wall on the Mexican and American border, the troops have put up so much concertina wire that the town is considering suing the government to take it down, according to the Washington Post.

This week, Nogales’ city council passed a resolution opposing the razor wire and demanding it be removed. It includes a threat to sue the government if the wire is not removed.
They have installed 80 miles of concertina wire, according to William Speaks, a Defense Department spokesman. The deployment has so far cost $132 million, but that number may rise to $1 billion by the end of the year.
https://splinternews.com/troops-on-the-border-are-apparently-keeping-america-saf-1832448777


It's almost as if... as if... this is a giant fucking waste of time, money, and resources. A stupid publicity stunt done simply to try and show he's getting shit DONE. Yes, lets string up a bunch of razor wire (that can be defeated in less than a second with a $5 pair of snips) and then have to take it all back down again. The GOP has never been shy about wasting giant untold sums of money on stupid shit like this while crying that we need to gut social services because we just can't afford them since the military always needs more funding. And don't worry about it, they always have another round of tax cuts for the wealthy and that'll fix everything this time, they swear.
 

LeVeL

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Just in case anyone actually doubted that Fauxcohontas has lied about her heritage:

3554987
 

Blind_Io

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So, are you saying it's okay to call her racist names or not?

You know, just yesterday I had a premonition about you getting backed into a corner and going straight for Trump's playbook: minimize, deny, and then deflect by calling someone a childish name.

I didn't post it because I thought it would be unfair and unnecessarily pessimistic about you.
 

LeVeL

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Ok there Nostradamus :rolleyes: Predictably you've got NOTHING to say about my actual post so you go for the personal attack instead. This isn't complicated - granny Warren has lied her entire life about her race in order to get ahead. But I get it, Trump's schedule that you don't understand now clearly more important :rolleyes:
 

Blind_Io

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Let's see:
  • "Fauxcahontas" very clever, but still racist regardless of whether she claims to be Native or not.
  • No one was talking about Warren and her racial identity is not connected to the last several pages discussing the border wall.
  • You've already exhausted minimizing when no one bought your pulled-out-of-your-ass costs for the wall
  • You've already exhausted denying.
And now we are at deflecting.

So now we start over when you get called out on your Whataboutism that is unrelated to the topic at hand. As a bonus, you doubled down on the name calling with "granny Warren" - as if being a grandparent is somehow a bad thing. First step: attack someone else.

Ok there Nostradamus :rolleyes: Predictably you've got NOTHING to say about my actual post so you go for the personal attack instead. This isn't complicated - granny Warren has lied her entire life about her race in order to get ahead. But I get it, Trump's schedule that you don't understand now clearly more important :rolleyes:
Let's see, minimizing: "Nostradamus" and eyeroll emoji.
Name calling: "granny"
Deflecting: Back to Warren's racial identity.
Personal attack: Apparently I can't read a fucking calendar now.
All of this because you've got nothing to support your bullshit about the wall and you know it. The razor wire is a publicity stunt, governors are recalling their national guard from the border, experts agree that the initial cost Trump is asking for is not going to cover a damn thing and even if it did, the border fence is not going to be effective. You brought up other barriers, which only work in a limited capacity and even then, only when used in concert with sensors, drones, and physical patrols. Every single thing you've brought up to support this project has been shot down again, and again, and again - not just by forum users, but by border security experts, economists, and the very people who already have a border wall in their backyard.

Shall we reset so you can go again?
 

gaasc

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"Fauxcahontas" very clever, but still racist
Really? Don't care about the argument but are we really at the point that that is racist? Is it a microaggresion? can LeV lose his job if it surfaces?
 

LeVeL

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I'm not deflecting - there's just nothing else to add when you keep ignoring facts that support physical barriers being effective; the fact that leading Dems have supported physical barriers; the fact that $5.7b is not something I "pulled out of my ass" but what POTUS is seeking and is in line with what leading Dems have sought; etc. Orange man is bad for you and no amount of facts or logic will change that.

So yes, I'm changing the topic and all you've managed to get out of this is that "being a grandparent is bad". Stop being so butthurt and focus on the actual issues, okay little buddy? Or is this post somehow going to chafe your delicate cheeks too?
 

Blind_Io

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It was racist when trump used "Pocahontas" as a slur; evolving that and continuing to use it as a slur is still racist. There's no "microaggression" bullshit here, that use was intentionally derogatory.
 

Blind_Io

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Yeah, accountability sucks. As opposed to the Right who elected a fucking Nazi. But hey, I guess anything to trigger a Lib, right?

I'm not deflecting - there's just nothing else to add when you keep ignoring facts that support physical barriers being effective; the fact that leading Dems have supported physical barriers; the fact that $5.7b is not something I "pulled out of my ass" but what POTUS is seeking and is in line with what leading Dems have sought; etc. Orange man is bad for you and no amount of facts or logic will change that.

So yes, I'm changing the topic and all you've managed to get out of this is that "being a grandparent is bad". Stop being so butthurt and focus on the actual issues, okay little buddy? Or is this post somehow going to chafe your delicate cheeks too?
God damn, I have to give you credit, I didn't think it was possible for a human being to be this thick. Let me break it down Barney Style for you.

The $5.7 Billion is not the cost of the wall. It is what Trump wants today. There is no final cost for the wall. You don't know what it is. Trump doesn't know what it is. Nobody knows what it is because we haven't even done a bid process yet.

Fucking stop it with the $5.7 Billion number, you're embarrassing yourself. Just because Trump says something doesn't make it true, in fact, if he says it, there's a pretty good chance that it's a lie since he holds the record for most demonstrably false statements ever said by a President.

Border experts, including those within border patrol, say that the type of wall expansion Trump wants is not effective when compared to other means of securing the border. You keep deflecting with "but (INSERT COUNTRY) has a wall!" - yeah, and context matters, dipshit.

I'm fucking done being civil with you. You call people names, you're insulting, childish, obtuse and frankly, you are an asshole. Go fuck a cactus.
 

gaasc

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It was racist when trump used "Pocahontas" as a slur; evolving that and continuing to use it as a slur is still racist. There's no "microaggression" bullshit here, that use was intentionally derogatory.
I...don't get it actually. I also think that it continues a dangerous line of "he said it in a way we (vague subgroup of people which may or may not be related to the offended group) feel is offensive so now it is forever and ever and all time". But that's okay. Not like I running around calling people Pocahontas.
 

LeVeL

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Can we just agree to disagree and move on? Because I tried that this morning and you accused me of deflecting.
 

LeVeL

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It was racist when trump used "Pocahontas" as a slur; evolving that and continuing to use it as a slur is still racist. There's no "microaggression" bullshit here, that use was intentionally derogatory.
It's not racist, no matter how butt-hurt you are over it.

Google "racism definition" and you get this:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
There has been no implication that whites are superior to native Americans. In fact, Warren isn't even "of a different race", since she is fucking white. Calling her Pocahontas or Fauxcohontas isn't racist, it's just making fun of a lying scumbag politician - it is not at all directed at native Americans or meant to demean or disrespect them. Unless, of course, a liberal gets triggered and then everything is racist.
 
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