The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

JimCorrigan

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@LeVeL, the Steele Dossier was not what caused the investigation into Trump. There was information that came into the CIA and FBI from foreign allies that was cause for concern that triggered it all. Stop llistening to trump's version of this.
This is still up for some debate, but having read through that part of the report, I have to agree with you, and say the initiation of the investigation in June or July 2016 appears to, as you put it, come from legitimate cause for concern (Trump lying about the Moscow Trump Tower meetings, Papadopoulos claiming he could get intel on Clinton from overseas, etc.).

Having said that, the Steele Dossier was the reason for the FISA warrants, and is what Comey himself showed Trump, and is barely mentioned in the Mueller Report, which strongly suggests that he (Mueller) couldn’t verify anything in it. That’s deeply troubling as well.
 
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GRtak

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Since nobody else wants to talk about it...



My favorite part is.Trump's own assessment, "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm fucked."
 

LeVeL

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My favorite part is.Trump's own assessment, "Oh my god. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm fucked."
You are such a disingenuous little shit. Trump said that because he knew that even this meritless investigation would handicap his entire presidency.

3555420
 
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GRtak

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I know the frame.of reference, so there is nothing disingenuous you pretentious thin skinned prick(see, I can call names too). Just ignore what he said after that to Sessions, "You were supposed to protect me". If he did nothing wrong, he would not need protecting.
 

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Wait until you see the tapdance around Trump and his cronies attempting to collude, but being too stupid and incompetent to send an email.
 

LeVeL

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If he did nothing wrong, he would not need protecting.
He literally explains why he's so worried. And Mueller didn't think much of this, and neither did Barr. You really need to see a shrink for your TDS.
 

GRtak

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He is aware of what he and his campaign staff has done. He is not worried about anything other than somebody being there to protect him(and only him).


Wait until you see the tapdance around Trump and his cronies attempting to collude, but being too stupid and incompetent to send an email.

The only reason they didn't collude is because they couldn't get through.

I want to see how they are going to get around releasing the tax returns.
 

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This is a rather interesting analysis from an actual lawyer.
From what I could gather until now, it seems to me that Trump acted way less towards serving the interests of the People and the Country and more towards using presidential powers to foster himself and his own interests over everyone else's.
 

LeVeL

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From what I could gather until now, it seems to me that Trump acted way less towards serving the interests of the People and the Country and more towards using presidential powers to foster himself and his own interests over everyone else's.
No. He could've used executive powers to stop this investigation dead in its tracks but he allowed it to continue. He could've fire Mueller, he could've ordered the investigation closed, he could've ordered his employees not to speak to Mueller, he could've blocked the release of the report - Trump didn't do any of that. Basically, he did not collude with Russia and he did not obstruct the investigation into Russian election interference so as far as I can tell he served my interests rather well.
 

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No. He could've used executive powers to stop this investigation dead in its tracks but he allowed it to continue. He could've fire Mueller, he could've ordered the investigation closed, he could've ordered his employees not to speak to Mueller, he could've blocked the release of the report - Trump didn't do any of that. Basically, he did not collude with Russia and he did not obstruct the investigation into Russian election interference so as far as I can tell he served my interests rather well.
All of those are obstructions of justice, and there's a strong indication he tried to do many if not all of those, but nobody around him was willing to soil their hands with this bullshit.
 

SirEdward

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No. He could've used executive powers to stop this investigation dead in its tracks but he allowed it to continue. He could've fire Mueller, he could've ordered the investigation closed, he could've ordered his employees not to speak to Mueller, he could've blocked the release of the report - Trump didn't do any of that. Basically, he did not collude with Russia and he did not obstruct the investigation into Russian election interference so as far as I can tell he served my interests rather well.
So rather well extends as long as he doesn't fu*k it up to the stars?

Of course he didn't collude. He wanted power for himself, Russia thought he was the perfect guy to have as president of the USA. They didn't collude, their interest converged naturally.

The question is what Russia's interest was (or still is), why Trump suited it that well, and if that converges to the USA's, or even to yours. It's the same question I ask myself when I see Russia's interference in the EU.

As for the rest, if he was spotless, Muller would have said it plain and simple.
 

JimCorrigan

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All of those are obstructions of justice, and there's a strong indication he tried to do many if not all of those, but nobody around him was willing to soil their hands with this bullshit.
Intent to commit obstruction isn’t obstruction. Lying to the press, or (reprehensively) getting your son to change his statement to the press also isn’t obstruction. Had he done either of those to Mueller’s investigators, or exacted his executive powers to halt the investigation, however, that would certainly make the case.

Of course he didn't collude. He wanted power for himself, Russia thought he was the perfect guy to have as president of the USA. They didn't collude, their interest converged naturally.

The question is what Russia's interest was (or still is), why Trump suited it that well, and if that converges to the USA's, or even to yours. It's the same question I ask myself when I see Russia's interference in the EU.

As for the rest, if he was spotless, Muller would have said it plain and simple.
A few things to add:

1. The report indicates the Russian hackers also approved of Bernie Sanders and vehemently opposed Hillary Clinton... therefore it’s possible their intent may have been “ABC” (anyone but Clinton) as much as they were “for Trump.”

2. Mueller was not impartial throughout this process. The inclusion of Trump’s “I’m fucked” comment (since it was not accompanied by an admission of guilt) is proof of that. Furthermore, his job as special prosecutor was to determine if he could or could not make the case..... not punt his findings to the AG. Mueller is smart enough to know by doing that he opened the door just a crack to offer congress a shot at impeachment proceedings, something that could never happen if he formally exonerated the President.
 
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GRtak

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Mueller's job was not to be impartial, that is the job of a judge. The job of a special prosecutor is to seek evidence. The job is really an investigator.
 

JimCorrigan

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Mueller's job was not to be impartial, that is the job of a judge. The job of a special prosecutor is to seek evidence. The job is really an investigator.
You are correct, “impartial” was the wrong word on my part.

My greater point stands, however, regarding the “I’m fucked” quote being wholly unnecessary, and his punting formal conclusions of his findings to the AG.
 

GRtak

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By law, the AG gets the report. The AG, or the acting head of the investigation have been involved since this thing started. That is why Trump.was so pissed that Sesions refused himself.

The Trump comment was uncovered in the investigation, so it was included in the report.
 

JimCorrigan

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By law, the AG gets the report. The AG, or the acting head of the investigation have been involved since this thing started. That is why Trump.was so pissed that Sesions refused himself.
It’s the prosecutor’s job to recommend to the AG whether or not to proceed with the prosecution. He punted.

Trump was pissed because Sessions recused himself from being the AG (presumably because he thought Sessions would be “his guy”) in that case due to Sessions’ own culpability in the matter. It was right of Sessions to recuse himself, and wrong of Trump to fire him.

The Trump comment was uncovered in the investigation, so it was included in the report.
By your logic, the report should therefore include any and all comments, such as how many times Trump says “fuck” or calls someone in the media “fake news.” Yet they don’t, because they weren’t germane to the investigation. “I’m fucked” (sans even the slightest subtext of guilt) wasn’t relevant.... and therefore the only logical conclusion to its inclusion was to give the appearance of guilt, and Mueller is smart enough to know that.
 
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SirEdward

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1. The report indicates the Russian hackers also approved of Bernie Sanders and vehemently opposed Hillary Clinton... therefore it’s possible their intent may have been “ABC” (anyone but Clinton) as much as they were “for Trump.”
That is quite interesting and reinforces the question: "what was Russia's interest? What were they trying to do?" Russia meddled with the EU too. In Italy, they have strong connection with the still-not-radical-but-too-fascist-leaning-for-everyone's-good, anti-EU right-wing, and (in a lesser fashion) with the angry, populist party without a long-term idea of what to do. Britain and Brexit is also a very hot topic.

Whatever the reason, Russia's interest were in this specific direction: splitting the EU (divide et impera, as the latins used to say) and putting the US in a weaker state. With Trump, the bumbling, self-centered, diplomatic incompetent who is easier to manipulate, trick and beat at politics, (as the North Korea situation has shown), that is easy. With Sanders, the pacifist with no strong foreign policy compass or objectives, that would have been easy too. With Clinton and her adamant drive for a stronger US presence in foreign policy and her extensive knowledge of Russia's ways, that would have been very diffcult indeed.

But I suppose the best candidate would have been Trump anyway, because Sanders might have waken up, at some point, while Trump simply hasn't the skills to play a real long-term diplomatic game.
 

prizrak

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That is quite interesting and reinforces the question: "what was Russia's interest? What were they trying to do?"
Russia doesn’t want to be relegated to 2nd fiddle by EU/US interests as it has been for decades now. So yep they want to weaken the west (would also love to do that to China but that’s difficult)
 
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