The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

Discuss ways to reduce that?
Key word: “always”. If it’s “always a shit show”, then it can never not be one.

I do, of course, realise that this may well be rooted in Reagan’s “government is the problem” line, but I’m pretty sure that even the actor from California would be appalled by the actions of the fraudster from New York.

This is what I mentioned in another conversation. It seems that the ideal discussion for some people here is indeed the one you have in the music thread. or just posting links and...I dunno, everyone just silently nodding in agreement without replying.
Nope. We could be talking about Trump’s economic policy successes if there were any. We could be talking about the way the American people has become less divided if he wasn’t taking an axe to it every single day. We could be talking about the stabilising influence exerted around the world if the White House wasn’t delivering blow after blow.

Instead, we’re stuck here watching the decay of a country that many of us want to see thrive. All because some overrated snake oil salesman hijacked the democratic process and fooled enough people.
 
Key word: “always”. If it’s “always a shit show”, then it can never not be one.

I do, of course, realise that this may well be rooted in Reagan’s “government is the problem” line, but I’m pretty sure that even the actor from California would be appalled by the actions of the fraudster from New York.


Nope. We could be talking about Trump’s economic policy successes if there were any. We could be talking about the way the American people has become less divided if he wasn’t taking an axe to it every single day. We could be talking about the stabilising influence exerted around the world if the White House wasn’t delivering blow after blow.

Instead, we’re stuck here watching the decay of a country that many of us want to see thrive. All because some overrated snake oil salesman hijacked the democratic process and fooled enough people.
Hey, to be fair, Trump's Syria bullshit resulted in a bipartisan condemnation from Congress.
 
There are degrees of shit show, if say it's up to 11 now, it could be brought back down to 10 or 5 but it will never be 0
Then why did you not say earlier that you meant it this way? Essentially, this now means that politics is just like life: sometimes good, sometimes bad and sometimes, you wake up and just don’t know what happened.

As for the shittiness of the current US government, you and I seem to agree. It’s just that I wouldn’t call a 5 on your scale a “shit show”... perhaps a soiled diaper.
 
Then why did you not say earlier that you meant it this way?
I alluded to it in earlier posts, and in a later one at that.
It’s just that I wouldn’t call a 5 on your scale a “shit show”... perhaps a soiled diaper.
It's like a hurricane, a cat1 hurricane is still a hurricane, just not as bad as a cat5
 
Republicans just stormed impeachment proceedings, attempting to disrupt the process in protest.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...DzjFD9AW5_J4UYxmXD2RH_AHks#Echobox=1571846058

Kind of makes you wonder where the line is for accountability. Trump has openly admitted to impeachable offenses, and yet the GOP is defending him and disrupting attempts to hold him accountable.
"Party of Law and Order" my ass.

These people not only attempted to disrupt a hearing in which sensitive information was being discussed, they attempted to bring recording devices into a SCIF (Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility), which is illegal and considered espionage. When the Republican party can't get what they want through the democratic process, they will not abandon conservatism, they will abandon democracy.

Trump: Openly threatens whistleblowers
Congress: puts hearings behind closed doors for security.
GOP: Waaargarrrble! Why isn't this happening publicly?! (unironically attempts to storm the secure facility where the witness is testifying after being threatened by the President).

Huh, I wonder why? The fact that the witness will be discussing classified material aside, thanks for proving the point, jackasses.
 
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1070711

Trump's lawyers argue he can't be charged while in office — even if he shoots someone

WASHINGTON — A panel of three federal appeals court judges appeared to be unreceptive Wednesday to President Donald Trump's claim that local prosecutors cannot get his financial records as long as he's in office — and heard an extreme hypothetical example making that case.

The long-standing view of the Justice Department is that a president cannot be indicted while in office. William Consovoy, Trump's lawyer, told the Second Circuit Court of Appeals that the immunity extends to the entire criminal justice process, including grand jury subpoenas for documents.

Manhattan's district attorney obtained a grand jury subpoena in August for three years' worth of financial records from the Trump Organization and eight year's worth of Trump-related business records — including Trump's personal tax records — from the accounting firm Mazars USA. Prosecutors are investigating whether Trump or his company broke any state laws when they reimbursed his former lawyer, Michael Cohen, for making hush money payments.

Cohen, now serving a three-year federal prison sentence, admitted to paying porn star Stormy Daniels to prevent her from publicly claiming, during the presidential campaign, that she once had a sexual relationship with Trump — an allegation he has repeatedly denied.

Carey Dunne, New York District Attorney Cy Vance Jr.'s general counsel, said the president's position is too absolute.

There could be examples in which a state should be able to conduct a criminal investigation of a sitting president, "if, for example, he did pull out a handgun and shoot someone on Fifth Avenue."

Asked about that, Consovoy said a president could be charged with such a crime once he was out of office or if he was impeached and removed from office. "This is not a permanent immunity," he said.

"I'm talking about while in office. Nothing could be done? That's your position?" Judge Denny Chin asked.

"That is correct," Consovoy said.


During the 2016 campaign, Trump first raised the scenario about what would happen if he shot someone, but not with any reference to legal immunity.

Trump said at the time, "My people are so smart. And you know what else they say about my people? The polls? They say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's like incredible.”

Even assuming a president cannot be indicted, the appeals court judges questioned whether that immunity applies to earlier stages in the criminal justice process and noted that President Richard Nixon turned over White House tapes in 1974 in response to a grand jury subpoena.

Trump's legal team has also said that subjecting a president to a criminal investigation would be a distraction from his official duties. But that argument was also greeted skeptically.

"Where is the distraction if the subpoena is served on his accountants? The president doesn't have to do anything to comply with that subpoena," Chin asked.

Dunne told the court that the president's claim is too broad.

"There is no privilege for tax returns, whether it's the president or anyone else in this country," he said. "He may view them as embarrassing or sensitive. But tax returns do, in fact, get subpoenaed all the time in financial investigations."

Dunne said the district attorney is required by law to respect the confidentiality of the records it seeks and could not even turn them over if Congress asked for them.

Based on their questions, the judges seemed to be well aware that they're being asked to venture into uncharted legal territory. No court has yet ruled on the reach of presidential immunity in criminal cases.

At the end of Wednesday's courtroom argument, Judge Robert Katzmann expressed what everyone in the courtroom was undoubtedly thinking — whatever the ruling is, the case is headed to the Supreme Court.

"We have the feeling that you may be seeing each other again in Washington," he said.


They are leaning really hard on the memo.
 
What I'm hearing them say is that we have to remove him from office, then charge him criminally.

Yeah, I'm good with that.
 
The GOP has become about power for the sake of power - they are not interested in the rule of law unless it serves their purposes. They are not interested in the well being of the nation if it's not serving the party.

According to Bloomgerg, Trump backed the GOP storming the hearing. This is now a case of witness intimidation originating in the oval office.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...-impeachment-update?__twitter_impression=true

Laura Cooper, a deputy assistant secretary of defense, is scheduled to testify during Wednesday’s closed hearing in the House impeachment investigation of President Donald Trump, although the hearing was delayed by a protest led by Republican lawmakers.
Here are the latest developments:
Trump Backed GOP Plan to Protest Inquiry (1:37 p.m.)

Trump had advance knowledge and supported a protest by Republicans who told him they planned to barge into a secure hearing room on Capitol Hill where Democrats are holding impeachment testimonies, according to four people familiar with the matter.

Trump on Tuesday met with about 30 House Republicans at the White House to talk about the situation in Syria and the impeachment inquiry. During a nearly two-hour meeting, which focused mostly on the impeachment inquiry, lawmakers shared their plans to storm into the secure room, the people said. Trump supported the action, saying he wanted the transcripts released because they will exonerate him, the people said.
About two dozen GOP House members occupied the secure hearing room early Wednesday, delaying a scheduled deposition.

Open Hearings May Start Soon, Democrats Say (1:03 p.m.)
Democratic House members who are part of the impeachment investigation predicted Wednesday that public hearings will soon be scheduled after another week or two of closed-door witness statements.

“A week or two of depositions, and then hearings,” said Representative Jackie Speier of California, a member of the Intelligence and Oversight and Reform committees, two of the three panels now holding closed-door witness questioning.
Another Democrat on the Oversight panel, Lacy Clay of Missouri, said he believes that is correct. He and Speier said they haven’t been given any specific hearing dates from Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff or other panel leaders. Clay said the investigation may be wrapped up near Thanksgiving.
Clay said the committees have gathered “quite a bit of evidence,” including the still-unidentified whistleblower’s complaint, the rough memorandum of the July 25 call between Trump and Ukraine’s president, and Tuesday’s testimony from acting U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor.

“It makes the case that he abused his power,” said Clay.
Clay said some witnesses who’ve already been interviewed may need to be called back, specifically pointing to Gordon Sondland, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union. Some of Sondland’s testimony about his knowledge of discussions with Ukrainian officials conflicted with what Taylor told the committees on Tuesday.
A Schiff spokesman wasn’t immediately available to comment. -- Billy House

Republican Protesters Delay Hearing (11:29 a.m.)

A protest by a group of Republican lawmakers temporarily put on hold the impeachment hearing testimony of a Pentagon official who oversaw military assistance to Ukraine.
About two dozen GOP House members, who are objecting to the closed-door hearings led by Democrats, barged into the secure hearing room, some of them “shouting, screaming” at the “injustice being done to the president,” said Democratic Representative Gerald Connolly, a member of the Oversight panel.
“It’s like a protest movement,” said Lacy Clay of Missouri, a Democrat on the Oversight Committee, who likened the protest to a sit-in and said the GOP members remained inside.

Only members of the three House committees -- Democrats and Republicans -- are allowed in the “sensitive compartmented information facility,” known as a SCIF. Access is limited to people with security clearances to discuss classified material that isn’t open to public view.
“We kept demanding they let us in, and they said no,” said Representative Debbie Lesko, an Arizona Republican.
Republicans have repeatedly complained that the closed-door hearings are unfair to Trump. House Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff has said that following the initial investigation stage, he plans to call some of the witnesses back for public hearings.

Connolly said the Republicans entered the secure area and walked into the room where a Pentagon official, Laura Cooper, was scheduled to testify. The GOP members were carrying electronic devices, which are barred from the secure area, he said.
“That SCIF is used by Congress for a lot of highly classified purposes. To compromise that to make a point is deeply troubling,” said Connolly. “They literally stormed the door when it was open.”

Connolly said GOP Representatives Louie Gohmert of Texas and Bradley Byrne of Alabama were among those who were shouting while in the hearing room.

“Things are at a standstill,” said Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio, the top Republican on the Oversight panel. -- Billy House

Republicans Stage Protest at Hearing Room ( 10:30 a.m.)
About two dozen Republican lawmakers staged a protest outside the room where three House committees are hearing testimony in the impeachment inquiry over what they said was a lack of transparency by Democrats leading the investigation.

Florida Representative Matt Gaetz accused the Democrats of orchestrating “secret interviews” and “selective leaks” about the testimony of current and former Trump administration officials. He repeatedly called it a ”Soviet style” closed process to impeach an American president.
The Republicans, most of whom aren’t members of the three committees conducting the hearings, said they’ve been denied access to the room and to transcripts of testimony. They walked into the hearing room, but Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff got up and left, said GOP Representative Mo Brooks of Alabama.

Schiff, of California, and other Democrats conducting the inquiry have said they are in an evidence-gathering phase of the impeachment inquiry, and that public hearings will eventually be held. -- Billy House

Pentagon’s Cooper to Testify on Ukraine Aid (9:22 a.m.)

A Pentagon official who held a key role in pressing for military aid to Ukraine arrived Wednesday for her closed door testimony before the House committees leading the impeachment investigation of President Donald Trump.
Cooper, the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia, is to be asked by congressional investigators about her knowledge of the withholding of nearly $400 million in U.S. security assistance at a time Trump was urging Ukraine officials to investigate his political rivals.
Cooper represents the first Pentagon official to testify in the ongoing probe being led by the House Intelligence, Oversight and reform and Foreign Affairs committees.

She did not answer questions from reporters.
Congress had allotted $250 million in military aid to Ukraine, in part to help it defend itself against Russia. That aid, to be joined by $141 million from the State Department, has become the focus of whether Trump was using it as leverage to get Ukraine officials to conduct the investigations he wanted.
Separately, the Pentagon Inspector General continues to review a Sept. 25 request from seven Democrat senators to launch an inquiry into the aid hold-up.
 
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The GOP has become about power for the sake of power - they are not interested in the rule of law unless it serves their purposes. They are not interested in the well being of the nation if it's not serving the party.

According to Bloomgerg, Trump backed the GOP storming the hearing. This is now a case of witness intimidation originating in the oval office.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...-impeachment-update?__twitter_impression=true
Question: Why is the inquiry being handled so secretively? My understanding is that this is not how it's been done in previous cases.
 
It's my understanding that the testimony will include classified information so only cleared personnel necessary for the committee hearing are allowed to be present, it must be held in an approved facility, and recording devices are not permitted. To your point that this is not how hearings have been done in the past: this is exactly how sensitive testimony is given, we have a procedure and special facilities to accommodate the situation for a reason. A second concern is that Trump or his cronies will attempt to disrupt the hearing, intimidate the witness, or otherwise further tamper with the process more than he already has in public -- a concern that was clearly realized today.
 
Question: Why is the inquiry being handled so secretively? My understanding is that this is not how it's been done in previous cases.


This is still the investigation. You don't investigate in front of cameras. The actual Impeachment hearing should be public.


 
[QUOTE]Nunes protege fed Ukraine info to Trump

A protege of Republican Rep. Devin Nunes was among those passing negative information about Ukraine to President Donald Trump earlier this year, fueling the president’s belief that Ukraine was brimming with corruption and interfered in the 2016 election on behalf of Democrats.

The type of Ukraine work Patel was doing that Hill described would not be within his purview as a senior counterterrorism adviser

He also traveled to London in 2017—without the knowledge of the U.S. embassy, the British government, or Adam Schiff, then the committee’s ranking member—in search of Steele, whose lawyer denied Patel access to his client.

His “unique access” to the West Wing, and the ease with which he has been able to interact directly with the president without NSC leadership’s involvement, has also struck some as unusual, the former official said. [/QUOTE]
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/23/nunes-protege-ukraine-trump-055837
 
This is still the investigation. You don't investigate in front of cameras. The actual Impeachment hearing should be public.


Also Trump and GOP are trying to intimidate witnesses
 
Maybe because they were expected to act like congressmen and not vandals? This is your take-away from this? That we need locks and armed security to make the GOP delegation behave themselves?
 
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