The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

avanti said:
Pardon me?
https://dailycaller.com/2019/10/28/...-souza-conspiracy-al-baghdadi-situation-room/
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To be a bit of a devil's advocate, does it even matter if POTUS is in the room? He can't do anything considering he is half the world away and operational command is typically with people who actually know what they are doing rather than Commander-in-Chief.
LeVeL said:
I went to crappy public schools
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Ditto, 2nd worst high school in NYC when I attended it :)
 
prizrak said:
We had this conversation before, there is a massive number of blue collar opportunities that people overlook because culturally we look down on blue collar workers. Most don't require anything past a certification, which can be paid for with government grants.

This isn't to say that there aren't institutional problems or that we as a country can't do more to uplift communities but to claim there are limited to no opportunities for socieconomic growth is at minimum questionable.
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It depends very much on context. Some people simply have greater access to information regarding these jobs, greater access to resources such as training opportunities, and even the belief that they can do anything more than work three minimum wage jobs. It is much easier to see these possibilities having already realized them; an intergenerational heritage of poverty is a very hard things to break. Even if one has access to them, poverty makes people make short-term decisions to meet their immediate need. Government grants might pay for training, but I can't take the time off from work to do the training because I live hand-to-mouth. Even blue collar jobs often require passing exams, if all my education to date has been substandard, how could I pass those technical exams? For that matter, how would I even understand some of the concepts involved in the profession if my education hasn't given me the knowledge base or taught me critical thinking and problem solving?
 
LeVeL said:
Such as? The only thing I can think of is that we don't teach basic life skills in schools - kids should be taught how to write a resume and do their taxes, not the damn Fibonacci sequence.
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"Should be" is not what "is". It's almost like you are saying the institutions responsible for that education are not adequate for some people. Welcome to the conversation, that's exactly what I've been saying.

Any industry. I've switched industries several times.
Whatever education they have. You don't need a PhD to have a decent job.
I went to crappy public schools and I speak better English than most - not sure how, considering it's not my native language.
And what does minimum wage have to do with this? We're talking about advancing up the socioeconomic ladder.

Honestly, most unsuccessful people I know just aren't motivated and most people I've met who complained about their jobs didn't actually look for other opportunities. I'm not saying everyone can get a six-figure salary if they want but most people should be able to make a decent living if they actually try instead of complaining about it and finding excuses, then blaming their misery on Republicans or some other nonsense. People also need to stop going into crazy debt to get useless degrees!!!
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Ahh, there it is. The idea that "hard work" means success. Do you think the single mom working three jobs is working less hard than the billionaire?
 
Okay, so someone who got pregnant and the father bailed should be forever stuck in low-wage jobs? Let's take a look at access to healthcare, education about family planning, access to contraception. What about when contraceptives fail? It happened to a friend of mine, both contraceptives failed and she got pregnant, the father bailed and is barely a part of the child's life, she was made an outcast from her family and had to get whatever job she could find.

Why doesn't she have a career? Because of all the things that I just said and said in previous posts. Knock it off with this "lift yourself up by the bootstraps" bullshit, we need to have a means to get out of poverty. Willpower isn't enough.

And you never answered the question: Is a billionaire working a billion-times harder than someone living hand-to-mouth working manual labor?
 
prizrak said:
To be a bit of a devil's advocate, does it even matter if POTUS is in the room? He can't do anything considering he is half the world away and operational command is typically with people who actually know what they are doing rather than Commander-in-Chief.
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This, it's not uncommon or even unheard of for politicians to stage photo ops to boost their credit. In fact, I thought it was commonplace. So again, how is that "Trump ruins it by blowing endless BS." Last I checked, the guy won't be coming back to life.
 
prizrak said:
To be a bit of a devil's advocate, does it even matter if POTUS is in the room? He can't do anything considering he is half the world away and operational command is typically with people who actually know what they are doing rather than Commander-in-Chief.
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It doesnt matter at all, the point was that the haters jumped on this speculative tweet from someone who jumped to conclusions, and turned the fact that he wasn't present or that he had staged the photo into another reason to spew their disdain with the president.
 
Blind_Io said:
It depends very much on context. Some people simply have greater access to information regarding these jobs, greater access to resources such as training opportunities, and even the belief that they can do anything more than work three minimum wage jobs. It is much easier to see these possibilities having already realized them; an intergenerational heritage of poverty is a very hard things to break. Even if one has access to them, poverty makes people make short-term decisions to meet their immediate need. Government grants might pay for training, but I can't take the time off from work to do the training because I live hand-to-mouth. Even blue collar jobs often require passing exams, if all my education to date has been substandard, how could I pass those technical exams? For that matter, how would I even understand some of the concepts involved in the profession if my education hasn't given me the knowledge base or taught me critical thinking and problem solving?
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Yes I agree with all of those but I don't really see how head of government is at fault for any of those. IIRC majority of the outreach programs are local or NGO, which makes sense since local governments would have a much better idea of what's needed where than someone sitting hundreds if not thousands of miles away.

I would love to see a school reform, if for no other reason than the fact that I have children...
Blind_Io said:
Why doesn't she have a career? Because of all the things that I just said and said in previous posts.
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You are doing same thing as Lev with using a single personal example as a supporting argument for a much larger data set.
 
I try to talk about systemic trends and I get a single exception to disprove it, I assumed that using a single example to personify the trend was fair game. I used a generic "what if" example, LeVeL responded by asking a half dozen questions intended to show the case study was responsible for her own situation - I added additional questions to prompt a line of thinking beyond the individual and considering the system as a whole.

Why is it that LeVeL responds to questions with questions, and has yet to answer the one salient question that I asked - yet, when I do the same thing for the sake of demonstrating a different perspective, you call me out?
 
Blind_Io said:
Why is it that LeVeL responds to questions with questions, and has yet to answer the one salient question that I asked - yet, when I do the same thing for the sake of demonstrating a different perspective, you call me out?
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Only reason I'm calling you out is for intellectual honesty. In this particular case I actually agree more with you than Lev.
 
Could you be any more insulting or stereotyping? You make it sound like people want to be poor and are blaming them for not having the skills, abilities, or opportunities of others. There are not enough jobs paying a living wage to absorb the number of people working low-wage jobs. I acknowledge there is a shortage of skilled workers in the trades, but even if we were to fill every one of those positions, there would still be millions without access to those jobs. The numbers just don't add up - and you assume ideal conditions in which someone can access the limited government grants, is close enough to a program to attend, and is already making enough money to devote months or even years of time to get a professional certification while taking time away from the job(s) they already have. Then there are the psychological impacts of poverty, which have been well documented and you have not taken into consideration.

As with many of the issues we have discussed in the 270+ pages in this thread: your reductionist understanding of complex systems is not accurate or adequate.
 
@Lev it's unfortunately not that simple, I have a friend who works in what I will broadly call public health field (it's not just health but it's the easiest way to put it) and there are a lot of different factors to generational poverty. Funnily enough one of the biggest issues is the welfare system the way it is implemented, is that either getting a job or getting a better paying job often leaves people worse off. For example someone making minimum wage might still qualify for Medicaid but doubling their pay would mean they no longer qualify for it but still don't make enough to actually afford insurance on their own (and likely won't have it through their employer).
 
That's impressive; you've managed to make Fox News' stance on poverty sound well-reasoned and grounded.

I don't have anything else I can say to someone who thinks that poor people are poor because they are driving brand new cars and wearing fur coats. Yeah, I'm sure the list "goes on and on" because it's USDA Prime bullshit that you pulled right out of your ass. Repeating bullshit doesn't make it any less bullshit than the first time. There are reams of studies on poverty, the causes, systemic solutions, psychological impacts, physiological impacts, and societal costs - not one of them blames "too many fur coats".
 
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https://www.npr.org/2019/10/28/774170607/house-will-vote-to-formalize-impeachment-inquiry

House Will Vote To Formalize Impeachment Procedures In Ongoing Inquiry
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced in a letter to Democrats on Monday that the House will vote to formalize the procedures in the ongoing impeachment inquiry of President Trump.


The resolution will outline the terms for public hearings, the disclosure of deposition transcripts, procedures to transfer evidence to the Judiciary Committee, and due process rights for President Trump.


Senior Democratic aides said the resolution will be released on Wednesday, with a House vote on Thursday.


"We are taking this step to eliminate any doubt as to whether the Trump Administration may withhold documents, prevent witness testimony, disregard duly authorized subpoenas, or continue obstructing the House of Representatives," Pelosi wrote.


So far the White House has refused to comply with the investigation because the House had not voted. It is unclear if passage of the resolution will change White House strategy as the investigation intensifies.
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More at the link.

Now the question becomes, will Trump allow it to happen, or keep witnesses from testifying.
 
Based on his history, which do you think is most likely? He's going to claim executive privilege over everything he can, slander anyone else in the media, and use stooges to disrupt proceedings whenever possible.

I expect at least a half dozen childish nicknames.
 
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