The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

Blind_Io

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Well, that's awkward.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with...don-sondland-touting-quid-pro-quo-73657413897

Relevant Time Stamps:
Slightly interesting bit around 4:30 mark re: Sondland saying he doesn't know what he's doing
6:50-ish: Old 2016 video saying how politics is basically always quid pro quo
8:00-ish: Met w/ Zelenski after Trump call, discussed path forward
9:00-ish, Sondland said he talked to Trump right before the July 25th call. Also being interrupted again, will get back asap.

In an exclusive original report, MSNBC Chief Legal Correspondent Ari Melber unearths rare video on the key witness at the center of Trump’s Ukraine bribery plot, Amb. Gordon Sondland -- who will be in the global spotlight testifying this week. In this special report, Melber tracks Sondland’s path from GOP donor to key impeachment witness, from a hotel magnate to his role in Trump’s Ukraine call, and how legal heat from democrats forced him to revise his bribery testimony.
This really is Stupid Watergate.
 

CraigB

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Stupidgate II: The Stupiding
 

mpicco

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"If you're poor and stupid, you're shit out of luck
If you're rich and stupid, you might become president"
 

marcos_eirik

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So US ambassador to the EU, Gordon Sondland just testified.

Ambassador Gordon Sondland testified Wednesday more bluntly than he had before that President Trump and his personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, sought to condition a White House invite for Ukraine’s new president to their demands that his country publicly launch investigations that could damage Trump’s political opponents.
“I know that members of this committee have frequently framed these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a ‘quid pro quo?’ ” Sondland said in sworn testimony. “With regard to the requested White House call and White House meeting, the answer is yes.
I can't see what he could do to nail Trump more to the quid-pro-quo than he did. Wonder when the angry tweets about him will come...
 

Dr_Grip

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Seems like the Republican lawyer has shifted his strategy from "there was no quid pro quo" and then "there might have been some quid pro quo but it was perfectly normal and not impeachable" to "throw Guiliani under the bus."

I'll guess we'll find out what Rudy's "insurance" is soon.
 

GRtak

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Considering That Sondland just testified that Trump would benefit from the investigation that he asked for as a favor, I think it is Trump that should be in that clip.
 

DanRoM

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This is all well and good - but an impeachment is a political process, not a trial. Does anyone actually believe the Republican senators are going to vote to remove him from office?

I'd love to be wrong, but I foresee Trump being president for another term even.
 

Blind_Io

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It is, but it shouldn't be. The point of impeachment, especially this impeachment, is to decide if these events happened and if Trump put himself before the nation. I think that issue will be punted and he will be impeached for how he handled himself during the investigation, such as witness intimidation. The bigger issue for me is that Trump was running a shadow back-channel through Giuliani. Sondland testified to that effect today, saying that Giuliani was speaking on behalf of Trump to foreign nations.

Now we get to see how long it takes before Trump pretends Giuliani was a third-tier nobody that Trump had never met.
 

marcos_eirik

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This is all well and good - but an impeachment is a political process, not a trial. Does anyone actually believe the Republican senators are going to vote to remove him from office?

I'd love to be wrong, but I foresee Trump being president for another term even.
I also fear that the GOP will once again put party before country, and save him.

But remember, there are lots of people there who don't like him and how he hijacked the GOP, and may only sucking up to him because he is president, if they do get the chance to get rid of him they might take the opportunity. Still, not likely, but could happen.
 

Blind_Io

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The Democrats could try to change the impeachment process within the Senate and make it a secret ballot/vote for the trial component. If the GOP senators have some anonymity they would have some protection from retaliation and we might get an honest vote. There have been several leaks from within the GOP that indicate there is a significant number of them who are not happy with Trump and what he's doing to their party - never mind that Trump is the symptom, not the disease.

I bet a secret vote would result in Trump's removal; but I'm not as delusional as Biden and holding out hope that the GOP is about to have an epiphany and spontaneously reform. Their current trajectory has worked for them, even if they don't have the trust of most the people, they do have the power - and that's all they care about.
 
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