The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

PelicanHazard

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I saw the video. To me, its clear he didn't hear the request at that time, as they shook hands other times.
Yeah, no. Even the reporters were asking quite audibly, and he didn't respond. Add to it that the two previous national leaders to have the same photo op in the Oval Office (Abe and Trudeau) got handshakes, and it looks like a deliberate snub.
 

Firecat

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I posted it because it's just kind of funny. There are a number of concerns regarding race and anti-semitism with numerous people in his surroundings, so let's not play innocent. I'm not saying they are literally nazis. Of course the jury is still out on Sebastian Gorka....some in congress have asked for it to be looked into.
 

JimCorrigan

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I posted it because it's just kind of funny. There are a number of concerns regarding race and anti-semitism with numerous people in his surroundings, so let's not play innocent. I'm not saying they are literally nazis. Of course the jury is still out on Sebastian Gorka....some in congress have asked for it to be looked into.
Let's not play the baseless accusation game, either. No one here, least of all me, thinks Trump is an angel (or even remotely close to one). Need I remind you of Interrobang's post from the last page?

So much of politics these days is branding stuff, giving stuff names and then repeating it over and over again for the stupid people to memorize it - it's ridiculous. Trump perfected it by branding all his opponents. Crooked Hilary, lying Ted, little Marco etc.
And this has got to stop. You will never be able to talk about the real issues and find compromises when all you are doing is trying to slap a negative label on an opponent, a measure etc. This is one of the big reasons why partisanship is at such a high point. People and politicians in particular aren't talking to each other about issues, about details, they are just branding stuff negatively hoping it somehow sticks with the part of the electorate that has the attention span of a cucumber ...

The Problem is of course that not only one side can stop doing it, this has to be mutual. Like a cease-fire. And it does not seem like the insulter-in-chief has any plans of burying this particular hatchet anytime soon ... so this will continue and Trumpcare will be Trumpcare. It's sad, but as long as Us-politics (in particular, not exclusively) cannot figure out a way to stop being so partisan, this will stay with us.
I asked you not because I thought you were wrong, but because I was hoping you'd back up your statement. Right wing extremists != Nazis.
 
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SirEdward

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I saw the video. To me, its clear he didn't hear the request at that time, as they shook hands other times.
I saw it too. The slanderer even had the smug in his face children have when they deliberately refuse to do things they don't want to do. Photographers audibly ask him to do an handshake at least six times (and I suppose Angela hasn't lost the opportunity to ask him exactly the same), and he ignores them, and Angela.

The proof is he visibly avoids looking in her general direction, not to meet her eyes. Quite childish and cowardly, I'd say; if you want to not shake your hands, look the person directly in the eyes and refuse, otherwise, you're just weak, arrogant and immature.
 
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Firecat

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Let's not play the baseless accusation game, either. No one here, least of all me, thinks Trump is an angel (or even remotely close to one). Need I remind you of Interrobang's post from the last page?

I asked you not because I thought you were wrong, but because I was hoping you'd back up your statement. Right wing extremists != Nazis.
That he's hired racists and anti-semites is not a baseless accusation.

That also wasn't my statement, it was from twitter. I don't know if I have to explain the joke.....but they used nazis because he was there with a German leader. It wouldn't have been funny if it said right wing extremists.

So yes, right-wing extremists != nazis. But that doesn't make them any better than nazis either.
 

DanRoM

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Right wing extremists != Nazis.
Since the context is German, it should be pointed out that "right-wing extremist" and "nazi" (or "neo-nazi") pretty much mean the same thing here. We don't use the term exclusively for NSDAP members...
 

TC

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I'm far more concerned about left-wing extremists, since they're the ones engaging in violence all over the TV. As long as right-wing extremists are doing nothing more extreme than fantasizing about caucasian utopia like a bunch of racist nerds, than I'm not too concerned. Let me know when they start rioting in the streets, singling out minorities and Hillary voters to assault, chanting for the deaths of public officials, and burning down their cities.
 

PelicanHazard

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I'm far more concerned about left-wing extremists, since they're the ones engaging in violence all over the TV. As long as right-wing extremists are doing nothing more extreme than fantasizing about caucasian utopia like a bunch of racist nerds, than I'm not too concerned. Let me know when they start rioting in the streets, singling out minorities and Hillary voters to assault, chanting for the deaths of public officials, and burning down their cities.
Need I remind you of this guy? It's not just nerd-fantasizing. Right wing extremists tend to act alone and commit a murder or so. Left wing extremists group up and riot. What makes better visuals for TV?
 

Firecat

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I'm far more concerned about left-wing extremists, since they're the ones engaging in violence all over the TV. As long as right-wing extremists are doing nothing more extreme than fantasizing about caucasian utopia like a bunch of racist nerds, than I'm not too concerned. Let me know when they start rioting in the streets, singling out minorities and Hillary voters to assault, chanting for the deaths of public officials, and burning down their cities.
Firstly, is that some sort of joke? Do you know how many shootings have taken place by right wing extremists in the US. Not to mention attacks on abortion clinics. The attack on olympics in Atlanta and the Oklahoma City bombing. Far left extremism (of the lethal kind) died out in the 80s mostly (at least in the US)

Secondly, I hate to break it to you. But terrorists (if the Muslim strain) are also right wing extremists.
 

TC

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An isolated incident once a decade doesn't strike me as something to be overly concerned about. Obviously I would love to live in an utopian world free of violence, but I'm not that idealistic. I'm far more concerned about large groups of people becoming increasingly more violent and authoritarian with each passing day.
 

Cellos88GT

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I'm far more concerned about large groups of people becoming increasingly more violent and authoritarian with each passing day.
I don't know what that has to do with right or left leaning politics, large groups of people will become violent when provoked regardless of political background. It only takes a few idiots to create an angry mob.
 

PelicanHazard

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An isolated incident once a decade doesn't strike me as something to be overly concerned about. Obviously I would love to live in an utopian world free of violence, but I'm not that idealistic. I'm far more concerned about large groups of people becoming increasingly more violent and authoritarian with each passing day.
I think you missed the point we were making, TC. Right-wing extremists are out there in the US in far larger numbers than I imagine people would think, but it's not something that makes the TV often (excepting mass shootings) because it's not as flashy as a giant mob throwing rocks through windows and burning trash cans in a riot. What brings in more ratings, a giant unruly mob or yet another unhinged person being brought out of jail in chains for murdering an abortion doctor or shooting at a cop during a traffic stop?
 

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That he's hired racists and anti-semites is not a baseless accusation.
Your previous posts focused purely on Nazis, not racists or even more specifically anti-semites, just the even more specific term Nazis.

That also wasn't my statement, it was from twitter. I don't know if I have to explain the joke.....but they used nazis because he was there with a German leader. It wouldn't have been funny if it said right wing extremists.
"It's funny because it's true" is a common comedic term, only in this case, it appears not to be true. That's all I'm focusing on.

So yes, right-wing extremists != nazis. But that doesn't make them any better than nazis either.
It makes them different, which makes it important not to conflate the two.

- - - Updated - - -

Since the context is German, it should be pointed out that "right-wing extremist" and "nazi" (or "neo-nazi") pretty much mean the same thing here. We don't use the term exclusively for NSDAP members...
The National Socialist German Workers' Party ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei", am I correct?) was a right-wing party?

- - - Updated - - -

...which Steve Bannon is a prime example of.
I strongly dislike Bannon, but what has he said or done that makes him a Nazi?
 

TC

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I don't know what that has to do with right or left leaning politics, large groups of people will become violent when provoked regardless of political background. It only takes a few idiots to create an angry mob.
Absolutely, but there is a scale to it. Like the KKK. There was a point where their numbers reached into the millions, iirc. Today it's a few thousand, scattered across the country. The KKK is still a problem, but not as much of a problem as they once were.

As much as the media talks about right-wing extremists doing terrible things, so much of it has turned out to be hoaxes. Like the church that was burned down with a Trump slogan painted on the side, or that Jewish cemetery that was vandalized. Meanwhile there are videos surfacing of left-wing extremists doing crazy shit all the time. All I'm saying is on a scale, I feel more concerned about left-wing extremism than right-wing, but that doesn't mean I'm not concerned about what crazy right-winger nutjobs are doing. I am, but not as much as this bullshit I see on TV all too often.

I think you missed the point we were making, TC. Right-wing extremists are out there in the US in far larger numbers than I imagine people would think, but it's not something that makes the TV often (excepting mass shootings) because it's not as flashy as a giant mob throwing rocks through windows and burning trash cans in a riot. What brings in more ratings, a giant unruly mob or yet another unhinged person being brought out of jail in chains for murdering an abortion doctor or shooting at a cop during a traffic stop?
I know they are out there, but lets also be clear, there is a big difference between an extremist and a terrorist. All terrorists are extremists, but not all extremists are terrorists. I'm strictly talking about extremists. When it comes to actual acts of terror, I want to think we are all united in our disgust and disapproval of those actions. But when it comes to extremists, it feels like there is a lot of excuse-making. Take the actions of Antifa as an example. I find that troubling.
 
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ahpadt

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I strongly dislike Bannon, but what has he said or done that makes him a Nazi?
What I quoted did not specify him as a nazi. Nearly all europeans would however classify him as a right wing extremist. There is plenty of evidence of him being just that.
 
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