• The development of any software program, including, but not limited to, training a machine learning or artificial intelligence (AI) system, is prohibited using the contents and materials on this website.

Top Gear Guys are somtimes such tools!! (2 rants)

NYCmitch25

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Messages
14
OK, I'm a big fan of the show and I wish we had something like this in the States -- but I'm getting tired of this show's biased behaviour.

<1> drive a Hummer in the City and a BMW X3 in the woods???

OK, they do an episode about the Hummer and they drive it around itty bitty city streets and give it a terrible score. Good point but not even once did they even attempt to use it for it's purpose -- as the best method for conquring the elements, I mean this thing is epic in it's ability. Then in a subsequent episode they rate the BMW X3 poorly and illustate their point by driving off road with it. The X3 isn't meant for off road and the Hummer isn't a city car, does that make them poor vehicles? I would like to see if the Brits can muster up somthing that is better then a H1 hummer or an SUV that can handle like the X3..


<2> The Vette is a loser because it's America's super car ??

OK, now the vette is our supercar, hmm and to "prove it" they illustrate that it's over 50 years old. And of course illustrate the US has no "real" history. When are they going to get over the whole 1776 thing anyway? I digress, anyway, they put the Vette up against the NSX, TVR, 911, and they claim that it only came in 3rd as this car costs more than 15k less.... Hmmm and they complain about it's handling as it almost beats the Evo on the track.... Hmmm , it's almost like they don't like americans? Compare a boxster, it's the same price!!
 
whoah...slow down guy.

First, welcome aboard :mrgreen:

Second, realize that this is a British show - and they prefer European, specifically British, cars over American :shock: :lol: . The whole show often revolves around tongue-in-cheek humour based on America (or other countries). Comparing European sports cars to American ones is like comparing apples to oranges. Both fruit, yet very different flavours. And the British apparently like oranges :lol:

American sports cars are notorious for big engines, poorly built interiors, a rough ride, and poor handling (I'm talking about the stereotype here). Obviously, the new ones are vastly better than those from the '60's - '80's, but JC still likes to diss American cars whenever possible. Just realize that it's mostly fun, and very little of it is actually meant. If JC/Top Gear hated America so much, why did JC order a Ford GT?

I think you need to realize that Top Gear is a car show intended to be humourous, and likes to poke fun of everybody else. Of course they're biased, but that's all part of their humour.

I kinda think you're more of a Fifth Gear person than a Top Gear person, based on your comments. That's not a bad thing, just an observation :wink:

*Edit: And about the Hummer, yes, the BMW 3 is better in the city than the Hummer, and vice versa, but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that a glorified Chevy Suburban is "epic" for offroading, compared to the likes of a REAL Hummer (the H1) or the Bowler Wildcat...
 
^^ You're taking things way to seriously.
If they weren't biased, the show wouldn't be any fun.

As for your points:
1) - Much of Europe has tiny streets.
- The H1 is a great off roader, I suspect the H2 is not so great.
- Land Rovers are awfully good.
- As for the X3, perhaps Clarkson has the same view as I do, if it can't off-road, then why pretend / make it.
SUVs have a good solid market, but from my POV, I don't understand them.

2) - Clarkson has always had a thing against Vettes, he's just not quite ready to admit that they're good yet. (Hammond sure liked it).
- I suspect the reason it came close to the evo is because of its power and not its handling though.
- As for him not liking the American cars: He's buying a Ford GT, loves the GT40, the Viper and the RS200, so that's not it.
 
VETTE 45k
-----------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.3 sec
0-100 mph: 10.2 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.7 sec @ 112 mph
Skidpad: .95g
Top Speed: 186 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 110 ft
Slalom Speed: 66.2 mph

BMW Z4 40+k
------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 5.7 sec
0-100 mph: 14.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 14.0 sec @ 95 mph
Skidpad: .90g
Top Speed: 155 mph (limited)
Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

Boxster S 52+k
-------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
0-100 mph: 12.9 sec
Quarter Mile:
Skidpad:
Top Speed: 165 mph (limited)
Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

911 65+ k
---------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.9 sec
0-100 mph: 11.0 sec
Quarter Mile: --.- sec @ --- mph
Skidpad: .--g
Top Speed: 177 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph
 
SiR_dude said:
^Heh...we posted pretty much exactly the same stuff..musta beat you by milliseconds :lol:
Funny, cuz it musta taken us a while to type.

What's with the stats?
You don't need to convince us that the new Vette's a good car.

But since we're throwing stats around ( :mrgreen: ) :

2004 USDM STI ($31K)
---------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
0-100 mph: 12.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.2 sec @ 104 mph
Skidpad: .--g
Top Speed: --- mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 111 ft
Slalom Speed: 69.1 mph
 
NYCmitch25 said:
VETTE 45k
-----------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.3 sec
0-100 mph: 10.2 sec

[...edited...]

Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

911 65+ k
---------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.9 sec
0-100 mph: 11.0 sec
Quarter Mile: --.- sec @ --- mph
Skidpad: .--g
Top Speed: 177 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

....uh, thanks? What are you trying to say here? We know the Vette is a decent car, in fact, I quite like it. I'd kill for the new Z06. But what was the point here?
 
SiR_dude said:
NYCmitch25 said:
VETTE 45k
-----------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.3 sec
0-100 mph: 10.2 sec

[...edited...]

Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

911 65+ k
---------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.9 sec
0-100 mph: 11.0 sec
Quarter Mile: --.- sec @ --- mph
Skidpad: .--g
Top Speed: 177 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: --- ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

....uh, thanks? What are you trying to say here? We know the Vette is a decent car, in fact, I quite like it. I'd kill for the new Z06. But what was the point here?

I think the point is refferin that the Vette is fast in a straight line but in corners will not have the performance of a european car like a BMW or a Porsche
 
Second, realize that this is a British show - and they prefer European, specifically British, cars over American
---------------------------
First off thanks, but I LOVE the show! My problem is their dishonesty about American cars just because it's American. Anyway they did a Hummer H1 and a H2 show, the show I was referring to was the H1. I just thought it was quite strange that they pitched the H1 in the backdrop of a city and tried to appear serious. Secondly about the H2, the only thing that is better than the H2 is the H1 from most of the things I've read about them. Maybe I wish they were a little more scientific about it all instead of using the show to "prove" their cars are better. Everyone knows the Americans are the ones that have the real trucks. I just wanted to scream at the TV that of course the Hummer is so dam wide and tall, thats what makes it such an awesome off-roader -- basic science really.

Also, I'm not like a huge US car fan, I think I only like the GT and the vette and the new Mustang but I think these cars are real contenders and deserve praise. (Note: Cars like the viper are a POS, too costly, cheap interior, etc.etc. and I have no problem with that complaint). But when you need to break out 70-100K cars to "prove" that the Vette is "worthless" it's got the kind of bias that is impossible to ignore in my opinion.

"Clarkson has always had a thing against Vettes, he's just not quite ready to admit that they're good yet. (Hammond sure liked it). "

Right, and the Vette has been worthless with it's handling, however, Hammond surely only trashed it in his "review" which usually means they are going to dis the car in the Summary part of the show (and surely they did). That was the only time Hammond made half-hearted supportive comments. And concerning the C6 handling, it's got a .95g on the skid pad, that's probably better than the Evo and just a little worse then the Lotus. I would suspect that the evo has AWD and gets better momentum though the corners but for the Vette to have the same score does indicate it's ability to handle well and power itself though the straight-aways. I can't see a car being so much cheaper than it's "rivals" was trashed so badly...
 
If you have ever been in Europe, the H1 review is very reasonable, because I would agree, the H1 IS impractical in Europe.
It is only reasonable if you ONLY use it as an off-roader, and since most people will probably want to use it more than just and off-roader, I think it's justified that it's unreasonable in most of Europe.
Anyways, as for a good British off-roader: a Land Rover is pretty damn good, it wouldn't surprise me if it was as good as or better than an H1.

By the way, skid pad says absolutely NOTHING about handling, it says something about grip (which is largely influenced by weight and tire size and such).
The slalom test says a little bit about handling.

IIRC correctly, Hammond sure liked the time the C6 put on the track.

NYCmitch25 said:
I would suspect that the evo has AWD
Was this just a poorly worded sentence or did you actually not know that an Evo is AWD? :shock:

All in all, I don't think they're THAT attrocious in the review of American cars.
Sure they've got hangups about certain models, but all in all I don't think it's that bad.
And there are plenty of reviews / segments that you don't seem to be talking about where they liked an American car :

The Ford Escort Cosworth
The Ford GT40.
The Ford GT.
The Ford RS200.
The new Ford Mustang.
The Dodge Charger and Challenger.
The Dodge Viper.

So I don't see how they're so bad.

Anyways, I think you're taking things too seriously. :wink:
 
I take Top Gear review with a grain of salt. If Jeremy says he hates all American cars, does he mean all American cars? Well, perhaps I agree with him in some areas because it is widely known that most "affordable" American family cars have crap interiors, lousy ride and handling, and average quality. *cough*GM*cough* But they are somehow more impressed with American muscle cars.

It is noteworthy that Richard has recently bought a '69 Dodge Charger R/T and has given a favorable review of the new Mustang. Jeremy was impressed with the Viper SRT-10, likes the Chrysler 300C but thinks it doesn't have enough "oomph" and the handling is too soft. And of course, he is getting his blue Ford GT.

About the Corvette C6, Jeremy may be bashing it on Top Gear, but his more in-depth article on The Times he gave it a decent review and rate it 4/5 stars. Hmm...
 
You are WAY too serious about Top Gear. It's mostly his own personal opinion about cars, for instance, he doesn't like the Prius, because it's slow, well some people don't mind the acceleration, so is it a bad car then? Nope, and don't take it with a grain of salt, a bucket would be more appropiat :wink:
 
You have to realize that the Corvette isn't such a bargain in Europe as it is in America.
I don't know which Corvette you're using in your comparison but I could only find the price for a C5 here in Sweden and it sells at 588000 SEK which is equivalent to $89k
 
But since we're throwing stats around ( :mrgreen: ) :

2004 USDM STI ($31K)
---------------------------------------
0-60 mph: 4.8 sec
0-100 mph: 12.9 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.2 sec @ 104 mph
Skidpad: .--g
Top Speed: --- mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 111 ft
Slalom Speed: 69.1 mph
[/QUOTE]

Nice, is that picture of the STI yours ? I pull over when I see this family saloon car pulling up onto my BMW ars.. .lol..
 
NYCmitch25 said:
Nice, is that picture of the STI yours ?
Yeah, that's his STi. :)
 
in my point of opinion, you cant get clarksons point of view to serious.. this show is less about realistic judgment then about a humoristic prejudice view from him..
the best example is the cool wall.. theres no realistic view.. just dont take his position to serious 8)
 
If you have ever been in Europe, the H1 review is very reasonable, because I would agree, the H1 IS impractical in Europe.
LOL but then it's ok to show the Range rover scale a mountain in scotland? My point is that they should have said exactly what you said or that the Americans do trucks the best and that the Hummer H1 or H2 really have no rivals.. but no, it's a complaint about it's pactical use which isn't what a H1 WAS DESIGNED FOR!


Was this just a poorly worded sentence or did you actually not know that an Evo is AWD?

I guess it was poorly worded -- what I was trying to say was that AWD has an advantage in handling simply because of the "spider gearing" in the axles which deliver power to the outside wheels when going around a turn instead of FWD or RWD which deliver power to only one of the two wheels. Thus, in general AWD cars (when done right) have the ability to keep up their momentum better WHEN cornering and of course in wet weather.

t says something about grip (which is largely influenced by weight and tire size and such).

I don't agree, also the Vette comes with 3 suspension packages which of course weren't mentioned. Grip indicates how well the car is going hold the road and thus why getting bigger wheels will improve handling. I think the other factors can be big like weight distribution and suspension setup but I figured we could assume that the Vette is very adequet in this area. Also, someone made comments like the Vette made up time it lost in the corners via the strait aways which may be a valid point if it did so poorly in the corners but this track has got features to really test handling such that sports cars can't have poor handling and do well. If it didn't then all of their tests would be invlaid, no ?

This is a more realistic picture of the Vette: "Take any sports car within 20 grand of the Corvette's sticker, and the Vette will flat smoke it. We think the Corvette may also prove a match for the upcoming $70,065 321-hp Porsche 911 and could very possibly outgun the $79,865 350-hp 911S. Oh, and don't bet against the Vette's earning another 10Best spot." -Car and Driver 2004
 
Renesis said:
:lol: A pissed off american who prolly rides in a Buick, how funny

LOL, naw I think I would be disapointed in my tiny engine and poor mpg in my RX8... jk
ok, I drive a BMW Z3 3.0.. with sport package... perfect hairdressers car.. lol
 
Top