Top Gear Revelation

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MWF

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Oh look. Another person who can't use words, so posts nothing but retarded pictures. What is it with you little kids and your stupid images?
Are you deliberately trying to get people's backs up? You have flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread while claiming to be sooo mature yet using words like "retarded" and calling other users "little kids".

I don't know how much lurking you've doing of late but the concensus here was that series 14 was an all time low and that we have seen vast improvements, paricularly in this run. Sure the last one wasn't to everyone's taste here but we aren't wholly representative of the whole of TG's 350 miliion worldwide audience. In other words we have all, essentially, been agreeing with you yet you seems to have got your panties in a massive wad about one segment out of a whole series.

We all feel honoured that our opinions have been taken on board by those who make the show and that they have listened to what we have to say but they have to consider their wider audience and if that means from time to time a scripted caravan fire to appeal to others then I for one will put up with that once a season if it means Top Gear stays on the air and is able to make shows like the first 3 in this run that appeal to us hardcore petrolheads.
 

rideclutch

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Well, well, well...the penny has finally dropped.
Lancer if it makes you feel any better, I too feel that Jeremy's comments in the preview were quite silly, regardless of whether or not they were a joke.

But I can't figure out what you're trying to prove in this thread. The apparent decline in the quality of Top Gear gets done to death at the start of every new Series for the last 3 or 4 years; it's not what I'd call a ground breaking revelation. One of the things I managed to deduce from the last series' of arguments here, was that whether I like it or not, the TG team had no moral obligation to making the type of program that I wanted to watch, which ideally would be full of cars.

So just sit back and enjoy what's left of it, or turn over to something else. I fail to see many issues with the first 3 shows of this series :dunno:
 

4G92Lancer

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Are you deliberately trying to get people's backs up? You have flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread while claiming to be sooo mature yet using words like "retarded" and calling other users "little kids".

I don't know how much lurking you've doing of late but the concensus here was that series 14 was an all time low and that we have seen vast improvements, paricularly in this run. Sure the last one wasn't to everyone's taste here but we aren't wholly representative of the whole of TG's 350 miliion worldwide audience. In other words we have all, essentially, been agreeing with you yet you seems to have got your panties in a massive wad about one segment out of a whole series.

We all feel honoured that our opinions have been taken on board by those who make the show and that they have listened to what we have to say but they have to consider their wider audience and if that means from time to time a scripted caravan fire to appeal to others then I for one will put up with that once a season if it means Top Gear stays on the air and is able to make shows like the first 3 in this run that appeal to us hardcore petrolheads.
Come on MWF, be serious. I haven't "flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread". The only people on here who get 'both barrels' from me are the ones who show complete disdain by adding nothing to the discussion except their obnoxious internet memes. I couldn't care less if this damages my 'Rep Power' as i'm here for other reasons than a silly popularity contest.

Look, I readily accept that vast improvements have been made, but the trouble is that it's not just one segment at all. It's just one of the many that have come before, with the same predictable end. And you've got to ask yourself, is this the kind of 'cocking about' that the core Top Gear audience is really after? From reading through the comments on 17x04, it doesn't seem that way at all. In fact, i'd be willing to bet that the majority of us would've enjoyed a James or Richard car review over this absurd train segment.

I realise it's hard to imagine that Finalgear is indicative of the worldwide audience, but the truth is we are. It's the hardcore fans that insist that Top Gear is watched on a Sunday evening, it's the hardcore fans that hunt down Top Gear on the often obscure cable channels, it's the hardcore who sit through the adverts that make Top Gear the commercial success it is. Andy Wilman has proved as much by mentioning this site by name, because they're obviously keen to gauge how the hardcore audience percieve the show. There's even a chance that Andy has read this thread and possibly accepted my stance or rejected it outright. Either way, I felt it was a point worth raising.

If Top Gear insists on doing these films then they really need to examine what initially made them so successful. Take the original Carboat segment for instance - here all three presenters were able to play to their different personalities, but despite the silliness, there seemed to be a genuine attempt to succeed (as James did, in fact) or at the very least, prove a point. Compare this to the train segment (or any of their recent 'cocking about' efforts) and it's abundantly clear that they're doomed to fail from the start because the concept is too daft. The key is that the challenges need to be difficult but not impossible. Perhaps if the film had been about all three trying to create their own bullet train (using a car obviously) and attempting to crack 120+ mph, then that might've been more fun - who knows?

My point is, the Carboat film was humor that trancended multiple age groups and wouldn't it be nice if that was the focus of the show? However, if they are in fact making these films in order to satisfy a far less mature audience, then unfortunately we can probably expect more of the same year after year.
 
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GreenBullet

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Come on MWF, be serious. I haven't "flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread". The only people on here who get 'both barrels' from me are the ones who show complete disdain by adding nothing to the discussion except their obnoxious internet memes.
:rolleyes:
 

Wallio

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I really like this season so far, and I think the main reason for that is they have finally struck balance. The car guys are pleased with the vastly improved motoring segments, but they're good enough that the entertainment crowd can appreciate. My g/f isn't into cars at all, but loves Top Gear, mostly the segments we cringe at. However, she was really into the MP4-12C review. I got into the train segment, and dispite the ending, found it hysterical. Plus I've watched every SIARPC this season, something I'd stopped doing during Series 9. Dare I say it, S17 is up there with S1-7.

And as always ignore the trolls, haters gonna hate afterall.
 

Amie8

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It's the hardcore fans that insist that Top Gear is watched on a Sunday evening
Wrong. You might insist that it's available for free download on a Sunday evening, but that's not the same thing.

it's the hardcore who sit through the adverts that make Top Gear the commercial success it is
Also wrong. You are a secondary market. The core audience don't sit through adverts because there aren't any. The show is still made primarily for the home audience, who include - yes - kids.

I tire of all this "we are the keepers of the true flame" garbage.
 

shellygrrl

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Lancer said:
Come on MWF, be serious. I haven't "flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread".
You've, pretty much, countered every one of us who have tried to reason with you with words with the implication of "I'm right and all of you are wrong! I'm the only one who gets it; the rest of you are idiots!" And if YOU weren't acting like such an obnoxious, holier-than-thou twit with your head up your backside, there'd be no need for those "stupid images", and there'd be no need for you to flame them.

All they're doing is, cleverly, pointing the mirror at you and your behaviour, and it's driving you up the wall.
 

That American Girl

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Well, well, well...the penny has finally dropped.

http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2011/07/15/jeremy-and-andy-wilman-discuss-sundays-new-show/

Over the last few seasons, I thought that Clarkson, Hammond and May had turned into a bunch of feckless, bumbling idiots, but in actual fact, it turns out that they're just gearing to show to entertain children. Y'know, the 'petrolhead' demographic...:rolleyes:

Well played Mr Wilman. I look forward to the Top Gear magazine adding in a much needed 'coloring-in' section :mad:
You obviously didn't listen to what they were saying then. They were talking about ONE upcoming episode, not the last few seasons.

Look, it seems most of you have missed the point entirely. The fact is they KNOW how to make a great car show (yes, this season has started well), but INSTEAD they choose to make a show primarly to entertain their children - and will admit as much.
Again, you are wrong. Sorry.

Degrading Top Gear to entertain 12 year old girls is like buying a muscle car and then painting a rainbow and a pink unicorn on the side so your daughter likes it - yes, the car is cool and yet also kinda ruined.
So you have been to the Carbage thread!


Oh god, just listen to yourself, "appeal to the child in all of us", no wonder you can't comprehend what i'm trying to say.

I'm not trying to "bitch about one segment", i'm merely saying that I understand now why Top Gear has gone from being a show about three guys who have a passion for cars, to a sitcom about three bumbling halfwits who traipse about the place setting things on fire.
Then stop bitching about the ONE segment then. ;)

I disagree entirely with ANYONE who says they weren't being serious. If it was some ruse, they'd be winking at the camera, but no, instead Clarkson casually reveals the two fundimental flaws that have been dogging this show for the last few seasons - "we have to make the show for everybody" and "it's for my 12 year old daughter"..
Well, sorry. Believe it or not, there are other people out there with different opinions. If you cant handle that, I suggest you log off now. :)

Yeah, good one. Here's one for you, how about you learn to read? My original comment was about the "last few seasons".
But you keep harking back to ONE line that concerns just ONE upcoming episode. Or maybe two. :p

And what a surprise, someone else who can't read. .
What a surprise. Someone who has their panties in a bunch about one thing that was said and is now having a snit fit because not everyone agrees with him.

No wonder the degradation of Top Gear is beyond your interpretation, you can't even detect humor.
No wonder your funny meter is so broken you can no longer detect humor. Shame really...

What would be the point in seeking an internship? .
And that noise is the sound of the joke whizzing over your head.

Good. Because as i've mentioned more than a few times now, I was never talking about Season 17.
Then why bring up a line that was talking about an upcoming episode in Season 17?

My point is, once again, that a car show isn't meant to appeal to such a young audience and that when a producer AND presenter confidently state that their children will enjoy these episodes, I just know that we're in for more of the same garbage that we've come to loath the past few seasons.
You're right, It shouldn't. And it doesn't. Please keep up here fella...

Oh look. Another person who can't use words, so posts nothing but retarded pictures. What is it with you little kids and your stupid images?
Again, you've missed the funny. Too bad.

Come on MWF, be serious. I haven't "flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread". The only people on here who get 'both barrels' from me are the ones who show complete disdain by adding nothing to the discussion except their obnoxious internet memes. .
No one here or anywhere for that matter should get "both barrels" from you because they disagree with you.

This is the internet. People here will have different ideas, ideals, morals, beliefs and other assorted values than you. I can't even begin to list the threads where Ive gotten into debates with people here, where it was blatantly obvious that we both had vastly different views on the subject. Almost to the point where I wanted to strangle them. :p

But I don't flame anyone, nor would I ever "neg-rep" anyone just because they didn't agree with me.

Get used to it. Or go home. And take your crayons with you.
 

MWF

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Come on MWF, be serious. I haven't "flamed just about everyone else who has posted in this thread". The only people on here who get 'both barrels' from me are the ones who show complete disdain by adding nothing to the discussion except their obnoxious internet memes. I couldn't care less if this damages my 'Rep Power' as i'm here for other reasons than a silly popularity contest.

Look, I readily accept that vast improvements have been made, but the trouble is that it's not just one segment at all. It's just one of the many that have come before, with the same predictable end. And you've got to ask yourself, is this the kind of 'cocking about' that the core Top Gear audience is really after? From reading through the comments on 17x04, it doesn't seem that way at all. In fact, i'd be willing to bet that the majority of us would've enjoyed a James or Richard car review over this absurd train segment.

I realise it's hard to imagine that Finalgear is indicative of the worldwide audience, but the truth is we are. It's the hardcore fans that insist that Top Gear is watched on a Sunday evening, it's the hardcore fans that hunt down Top Gear on the often obscure cable channels, it's the hardcore who sit through the adverts that make Top Gear the commercial success it is. Andy Wilman has proved as much by mentioning this site by name, because they're obviously keen to gauge how the hardcore audience percieve the show. There's even a chance that Andy has read this thread and possibly accepted my stance or rejected it outright. Either way, I felt it was a point worth raising.

If Top Gear insists on doing these films then they really need to examine what initially made them so successful. Take the original Carboat segment for instance - here all three presenters were able to play to their different personalities, but despite the silliness, there seemed to be a genuine attempt to succeed (as James did, in fact) or at the very least, prove a point. Compare this to the train segment (or any of their recent 'cocking about' efforts) and it's abundantly clear that they're doomed to fail from the start because the concept is too daft. The key is that the challenges need to be difficult but not impossible. Perhaps if the film had been about all three trying to create their own bullet train (using a car obviously) and attempting to crack 120+ mph, then that might've been more fun - who knows?

My point is, the Carboat film was humor that trancended multiple age groups and wouldn't it be nice if that was the focus of the show? However, if they are in fact making these films in order to satisfy a far less mature audience, then unfortunately we can probably expect more of the same year after year.
Now finally I find myself nodding in agreement, not least because you put together a cohesive argument without being obnoxious.

The rule of thumb is this. When they set out to do something silly/funny it tends to fail and make us cringe. When they set out to do things like the amphibious cars, allow the chemistry to occur naturally and succeed of fail on their own merits it works.

The good news is that bar the train film in the last episode they are doing that.

I was at Dunsfold today. The last piece starts off looking like the former, but it is easy to tell that they sat down, realised the first film was crap but took the germ of the idea and turned it into something that was, by and large, pretty awesome. I hope you agree with me next week.
 

4G92Lancer

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Wrong. You might insist that it's available for free download on a Sunday evening, but that's not the same thing.

Also wrong. You are a secondary market. The core audience don't sit through adverts because there aren't any. The show is still made primarily for the home audience, who include - yes - kids.

I tire of all this "we are the keepers of the true flame" garbage.
I think you've misunderstood. Top Gear's success has been a result of the hardcore audience switching channel when Top Gear starts and garnering a larger audience by doing so (by-in-large). The worldwide success of Top Gear has been a result of the secondary audiences demand for the show, which is vital as the BBC now funds the program based on it's saleability overseas (including the concept of the show).

Yes, I would say most, if not all shows on BBC2 are made primarily for the 'home audience' - but i'm not sure that always includes children. I don't recall Rick Stein setting his kitchen on fire to entertain the kids...
 

4G92Lancer

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You've, pretty much, countered every one of us who have tried to reason with you with words with the implication of "I'm right and all of you are wrong! I'm the only one who gets it; the rest of you are idiots!" And if YOU weren't acting like such an obnoxious, holier-than-thou twit with your head up your backside, there'd be no need for those "stupid images", and there'd be no need for you to flame them.

All they're doing is, cleverly, pointing the mirror at you and your behaviour, and it's driving you up the wall.
We must disagree on the definition of the word 'cleverly'. What's with all of the abusive language? Raising a counter argument is one thing, but personal attacks aren't really called for.
 

GreenBullet

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...adding nothing to the discussion...
I emphasized that while you accuse other members of being obnoxious, YOU are the obnoxious one. Familiar with irony?

That being said, I will conclude by adding this completely useless image, I'm sure it will drive you nuts. Enjoy.



Edit:

We must disagree on the definition of the word 'cleverly'. What's with all of the abusive language? Raising a counter argument is one thing, but personal attacks aren't really called for.
One of our most respected members, Shellygrrl, being accused of abuse and personal attacks? Now I've seen everything. I say,
:ban?:





 
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Wyvern

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I don't want to get caught up in any arguments, but I do think it's obvious that over the last few years, certainly since series 10, the show has been targeted very much at a family audience. It is definitely marketed towards that audience. There has been an extensive range of toys, and books and magazines (and a trading card game) that is squarely aimed at children. The core audience - i.e. the people who tune in regularly every week regardless of what else is on - really isn't just hardcore petrolheads here in the UK, and the show isn't targeted at that demographic. Put it this way, I know everyone's social circle is different, but my household is me and two friends. I'm the only one you could really describe as a petrolhead (either that or I'm clinically insane - look at what I drive for evidence ;) ), but we all love the show. My sister has three boys aged 9 - 14. EVERYTHING stops for Top Gear in their house, though only the kids watch it. My best friend sits down with her husband and son and has done ever since the show started, and they all enjoy it. My eldest nephew is the only one from that group I would describe as a petrolhead. And of course, the vast majority of the audience aren't on fora like this one. Of course, I have friends who are as car obsessed as I am who watch regularly too, but they're mostly people I've met online. The wider hardcore fanbase isn't necessarily car fans, and indeed, the show only achieved the level of popularity that it has after Hammond went upside down, which necessitated S09 becoming more of an entertainment show with cars rather than an entertaining car show on the basis of what was already filmed from which they could cobble together a run, and after that they shifted the balance of the show to hold on to that 'light entertainment' audience. Furthermore, the producers of the show have repeatedly referred to what it has evolved into as 'a family show'. It's aimed at everyone, from the schoolkid who likes to watch the silly men fall over and catch fire to the petrolhead teen who likes to watch things screaming around a track to the person with more refined tastes in vehicles to granny who thinks the short bloke with the shiny teeth is lovely.

I'm trying to think of a more appropriate comparison than Rick Stein, because I understand the point, but that's a show that is aimed at a completely different demographic group (not sure what the breakdown by age/gender/social group is, but it's basically aimed at an adult audience and the tie-ins are marketed as such too - cookery books and household products). The 'old' Top Gear would have been targeted at roughly this audience - it wasn't designed to have family appeal. Actually, the closest thing in terms of how it is marketed is Doctor Who, which reached its cult family viewing status from the opposite direction (it started out as a kids' show and became popular with adults) and is now no longer classed by the BBC as a childrens' programme, but is a family drama marketed to a broad, worldwide demographic (it recently overtook Top Gear as BBC Worldwide's biggest global brand).

The worldwide success of Top Gear is definitely down to the secondary audience and its demand - but when it comes to the home audience, it's clearly demarcated as family viewing - and the merchandising alone means that's not going to change any time soon.
 
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The Spie

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Oh, God, Wyvern, I wish you hadn't brought up Doctor Who, because all of a sudden, it makes me feel like a hypocrite. I'm definitely in the "get off my lawn" category of Whofans (I've been a fan since 1979, and abhor the New Who fandom who thinks the show began with Eccleston). However, the fandom hasn't put me off watching the show. I appreciate the show for what it is and love it to bits and am willing to forgive its excesses, but I don't like the people it's marketed to these days.

That being said, I'm not out there demanding that Moffat turn back the clock and only make the show for the old audience. I like the direction that it's going in, and have to admit that the groaner episodes aren't as prevalent as they were in the old days. In other words, I'm not rejecting it because it's not being made for the old fan in me anymore. I can appreciate it for what it is.

Lancer can't do the same with Top Gear. He wants a show made for him and him alone, and he thought that he'd found a group of kindred spirits at Final Gear who'd agree with him, call him a genius, and bow down at his feet to lick his toejam in the quest for a piece of his incredible wisdom. He found out otherwise, and now he's going after some of the most respected people on the board in what can only be called a tantrum. He hasn't got the hint that he's not a Special Snowflake and that his opinion has no rational merit prima facie. And worst of all, he can't use the multiquote function.

Sucks to be him.
 

Wyvern

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Oh, God, Wyvern, I wish you hadn't brought up Doctor Who, because all of a sudden, it makes me feel like a hypocrite. I'm definitely in the "get off my lawn" category of Whofans (I've been a fan since 1979, and abhor the New Who fandom who thinks the show began with Eccleston). However, the fandom hasn't put me off watching the show. I appreciate the show for what it is and love it to bits and am willing to forgive its excesses, but I don't like the people it's marketed to these days.

That being said, I'm not out there demanding that Moffat turn back the clock and only make the show for the old audience. I like the direction that it's going in, and have to admit that the groaner episodes aren't as prevalent as they were in the old days. In other words, I'm not rejecting it because it's not being made for the old fan in me anymore. I can appreciate it for what it is.
Oh, I could talk about that one all night! I had to Have Words at a birthday party recently because I was taken for a new!Who fan. The thing is, I enjoy it well enough now, but I can remember watching Tom Baker's episodes religiously as a kid. I suspect Doctor Who may be the only show I've watched consistently for longer than Top Gear :lol: Mind you, I'm weird because I loved the Sylvester McCoy era, even though it had no budget and some really iffy ideas (but it also had Ace, so it wasn't all bad). But you're right, it couldn't go back - things change and move on and it doesn't always suit. If I hated it, I'd turn it off :)

But I think we might be getting slightly OT if we got into that one ;)
 

MWF

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Yes, I would say most, if not all shows on BBC2 are made primarily for the 'home audience' - but i'm not sure that always includes children. I don't recall Rick Stein setting his kitchen on fire to entertain the kids...
Sure, but did you get a chopping board, recipe books or a set of Global knives for Christmas when you were 11? No.

But as a child much younger than that (unless you had no toys as a child which seems increasingly likely) you got given toy cars. It is a passion that starts early in many people's lives. We all eat food from a young age but it isn't until we are well into double figures that most take an interest in its preparation. Cars on the other hand feature almost daily for most of us from before we can walk.
 

4G92Lancer

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Oh, God, Wyvern, I wish you hadn't brought up Doctor Who, because all of a sudden, it makes me feel like a hypocrite. I'm definitely in the "get off my lawn" category of Whofans (I've been a fan since 1979, and abhor the New Who fandom who thinks the show began with Eccleston). However, the fandom hasn't put me off watching the show. I appreciate the show for what it is and love it to bits and am willing to forgive its excesses, but I don't like the people it's marketed to these days.

That being said, I'm not out there demanding that Moffat turn back the clock and only make the show for the old audience. I like the direction that it's going in, and have to admit that the groaner episodes aren't as prevalent as they were in the old days. In other words, I'm not rejecting it because it's not being made for the old fan in me anymore. I can appreciate it for what it is.

Lancer can't do the same with Top Gear. He wants a show made for him and him alone, and he thought that he'd found a group of kindred spirits at Final Gear who'd agree with him, call him a genius, and bow down at his feet to lick his toejam in the quest for a piece of his incredible wisdom. He found out otherwise, and now he's going after some of the most respected people on the board in what can only be called a tantrum. He hasn't got the hint that he's not a Special Snowflake and that his opinion has no rational merit prima facie. And worst of all, he can't use the multiquote function.

Sucks to be him.
So I guess we're in to personal attacks and insults now? Good to know.

Did I not just say a few posts ago that the humour should 'transcend' different age groups?

But, okay, maybe i'm wrong. Maybe I should be like the other so-called 'fans' on here and simply say "well, most of it was alright" or "another solid 7 out 10"...

(FYI: Multi-quote doesn't work well from my cell. I think you should give me some 'negative Rep-Power' if that makes you feel better).
 
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