Top Gear seeks to recover cars from controversial Argentina episode

kunedog

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http://xkcd.com/386/

Seriously though, I am genuinely intrigued that something Top Gear wanted to happen and tried to make happen--so persistently that, when it failed to happen despite their best efforts, they faked it in the editing room--actually did happen to them on a different continent, to such an extreme degree that they couldn't deal with it. Ain't that some shit? The "very specific" nature of the events only makes the coincidence more fascinating.

And I'm not really alone either. Argentina is the Top Gear topic at the moment. The attack might be the biggest TG news story ever, and the episode is the only one we've had for almost a year. The faked Alabama attack was brought up at least once in each thread about Argentina, by several different posters (none of which were me, btw).
 

Ryoku75

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I did watch the Alabama thing, I'm willing to buy that it was staged, kinda felt that way when James's Caddy ran out of juice just in time and Jeremy magically filled up his Camaro.

I was just wondering if there were any concrete examples of them fixing their cars yet hiding it, I'm aware of their massive tire\wheel supply for trips.
 

kunedog

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I picked the Toyota segment because it's iconic Top Gear and one of the times they explicitly promised they wouldn't fake something (by using spare parts). Fans would care if they found out it wasn't real. TG doesn't tend to make promises like that for the challenge trips.

It's comparable because (as others have pointed out) the hosts/Wilman have also explicitly and repeatedly claimed in interviews and columns that Alabama really did happen as portrayed. They haven't done that with any other obviously staged incidents, like the caravan fire or camper cliff drop or clarkson getting blown away by a tank/apache.
 

Tzarrim

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Because a flat tire isn't exactly a car's fault and is minor to begin with. No one is going to agree to "well, got a flat, I guess this 1k mile trip is over. Back to the studio", because it's silly.
 

FLstig

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I live 10 miles from the station, on the Florida side. You would not believe the difference 10 miles makes. One could not pay me to stop there, much less write any of those sayings on a car and stop there. I know the route they took, because I recognized the road construction from the hurricane. I even know where they put on slogans in Baghdad, FL. Had the crew not taken the interstate out of Baghdad, it would have happened sooner. Signed up to hopefully shed some local insight. I started watching TG a year after this was filmed. Wish I would not have missed them come through.
 

kunedog

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One could not pay me to stop there, much less write any of those sayings on a car and stop there.

Fine, that's your opinion. On the other hand, we have the TG crew & hosts who actually did exactly that, probably because they believed that no danger or violence of any kind would occur. And they were proven right (just watch their footage).
 

Tzarrim

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Fine, that's your opinion. On the other hand, we have the TG crew & hosts who actually did exactly that, probably because they believed that no danger or violence of any kind would occur. And they were proven right (just watch their footage).


Seems to me he has some actual first hand knowledge insight into it all. So what's your involvement and agenda?
 

Tzarrim

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Weird, seems to me you have some hidden agenda because you can't stop yapping about it at all. If he says "yeah I live next door to that, those are a bunch of backwards rednecks I wouldn't even ask for the time of day" then to me that sounds like he has more of an idea than you. Unless, of course, your hidden agenda is that you're an inhabitant of that hick town. Otherwise your "knowledge" and "facts" on the subject are pretty much null and void.
 

kunedog

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If he can identify one or more of the attackers, then I would concede that he has something extremely valuable to add to the discussion (you know, something that Top Gear has inexplicably failed to provide, for many years now). But it doesn't sound promising.


Weird, seems to me you have some hidden agenda because you can't stop yapping about it at all. If he says "yeah I live next door to that, those are a bunch of backwards rednecks I wouldn't even ask for the time of day" then to me that sounds like he has more of an idea than you.

That is not how knowledge/insight works . . . that is how over-generalization and prejudice "work."

Besides, none of that is relevant when you have actual footage of the incident (and, crucially, proper skepticism of the source to aid in judging it). After the Boston Marathon bombings, the FBI painstakingly pored over all available footage and photos of the scene to figure out exactly what happened. Gee, I wonder why they didn't drive 10 miles away, over state lines, to knock on some random guy's door and gain "first-hand insight" instead.


Unless, of course, your hidden agenda is that you're an inhabitant of that hick town. Otherwise your "knowledge" and "facts" on the subject are pretty much null and void.

My facts and knowledge come from the same evidence you have access to.
 

ladyblue

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No, you wouldn't concede, even if the information was of value. You have decided already that the whole Alabama incident was faked and anyone with a differing opinion from yours is wrong. Just give it a rest and let it go.
 

kunedog

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Over a month later and still no takers:
Better yet, here again is the animated gif I made of the attack:

i6Pve5zHK58EV.gif

And I (again) challenge anyone to make a better gif of the attackers actually attacking--I don't think I've set the bar terribly high.

Yeah, I really demand the impossible.
 
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Four Five Eight

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Over a month later and still no takers:


Yeah, I really demand the impossible.

I'll give you your gif after you give me video evidence of them faking it, I want to see production meetings and scripts.
 

kunedog

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Oh, no thank you, my side of the argument (null hypothesis) doesn't require any of that.

I'm quite content to let the body of evidence lie exactly as it has for years: nothing more than very brief footage from very few angles that shows zero attacking rednecks and consists of unnecessarily confusing and erratic camerwork and editing (with contradictory voiceovers), all provided by a solitary, unreliable source.
 

Four Five Eight

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Oh, no thank you, my side of the argument (null hypothesis) doesn't require any of that.

I'm quite content to let the body of evidence lie exactly as it has for years: nothing more than very brief footage from very few angles that shows zero attacking rednecks and consists of unnecessarily confusing and erratic camerwork and editing (with contradictory voiceovers), all provided by a solitary, unreliable source.

You're a guy on the internet, I've got the people who were actually there talking about it in interviews, I think I'd rather see real evidence not assumptions based on editorial choices for someone as confident as yourself on this issue I think it is necessary there is no reason what so ever for them to keep up this charade all these years later from books to interviews and newspaper columns since it is well known they stage things and have even gotten self referential about it so what is the motivation the reasoning behind it all it's not like Top Gear would be canceled if they came clean and your assertion is that it's completely fake not even a little bit real, you won't even budge on the idea that it was probably just a smaller incident which was exaggerated for dramatic effect.
You may not see "Attacking rednecks" but you do see rednecks threatening them to leave ASAP, the footage is misleading in that it shows this pickup full of rednecks on the back but they probably weren't involved in the incident at all what you do see is the woman talking to 2 other guys and then wandering over to shout at a producer maybe the producer or director said "Okay chaps lets get out of here and they ended up being hounded by a pickup truck after they left who knows but you weren't there so what the hell do you know the proof is on you.
 

jackbauer24

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I'm fairly new here and probably shouldn't step in, but can't we just agree to disagree on this subject and move on? They were either attacked or not attacked; no one seems to have been injured, which is what matters; the only people who know the truth have spoken and they're probably not going to change what they've said. In the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make? It's an event (or non-event) from a television show that happened (or didn't happen) nine years ago.
 
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MWF

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I'm fairly new here and probably shouldn't step in, but can't we just agree to disagree on this subject and move on? They were either attacked or not attacked; no one seems to have been injured, which is what matters; the only people who know the truth have spoken and they're probably not going to change what they've said. In the grand scheme of things, what difference does it make? It's an event (or non-event) from a television show that happened (or didn't happen) nine years ago.

This. It's way off topic and has just deteriorated into an infantile game of opinion ping-pong. So what if Alabama wasn't strictly "real"? Next people will be arguing that Clarkson actually happened upon a dead cow at the side of the road and single-handedly lifted it onto the roof of his car or that May miraculously survived going over a cliff in an Albanian Zastava etc fucking etc.

Leave it, shut it and FFS move on.
 

kunedog

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You're a guy on the internet, I've got the people who were actually there talking about it in interviews, I think I'd rather see real evidence not assumptions based on editorial choices for someone as confident as yourself on this issue I think it is necessary there is no reason what so ever for them to keep up this charade all these years later from books to interviews and newspaper columns since it is well known they stage things and have even gotten self referential about it so what is the motivation the reasoning behind it all it's not like Top Gear would be canceled if they came clean


Talk is cheap (in all those forms). But convincing video (i.e. "real evidence") is near impossible to fake, which is why there is none (and why this guy on the internet gives that fact more weight).

All their other staged stuff is either seamless or done for humor's sake or at the very least appears to be done for a presentable reason.

"Sorry we faked that fire, but we thought it would be funny and no one was ever in danger."

"Sorry we faked that exterior shot, but it really helped the flow of the episode in editing, and it's almost exactly what happened naturally before we had the camera in place."

"Sorry we staged that camper cliff drop, but holy shit it was awesome."


What the hell would be their excuse for this?

"Sorry we faked that terrifying attempted murder in a tone that stirred genuine fear in many of you, but . . . uh . . . we really hate that region of the world and we wanted to frighten and fool as many people as we could into joining in our bigotry."

If you can't see how admitting the truth would be a major problem for them, I again ask what you would think about a faked attack in Vietnam, India, Botswana, etc.



and your assertion is that it's completely fake not even a little bit real, you won't even budge on the idea that it was probably just a smaller incident which was exaggerated for dramatic effect.
You may not see "Attacking rednecks" but you do see rednecks threatening them to leave ASAP, the footage is misleading in that it shows this pickup full of rednecks on the back but they probably weren't involved in the incident at all what you do see is the woman talking to 2 other guys and then wandering over to shout at a producer maybe the producer or director said "Okay chaps lets get out of here and they ended up being hounded by a pickup truck after they left who knows

Only one person (owner/manager/whatever of the property) confronts them, and the most "threatening" thing she says is a warning not to tear up the parking lot. That is not a "smaller incident," that is NO incident. All violence exists in voiceovers (and your head), not in the footage.


but you weren't there so what the hell do you know the proof is on you.

You're rare. Burden of proof is a pretty big deal, and it makes little sense to say it doesn't rest entirely on Top Gear's shoulders.

Suppose I demanded that you prove the giant panda sitting behind Obama during his speech Tuesday was fake. Isn't step 1 to check the footage (and news reports) to verify there's at least a plausible fake there to be debunked? If there's no appearance (or news) of a panda to begin with (despite all the cameras), then there's no need to search for evidence of fakery.




Fair to say. I don't know how to stop it from coming up in other threads, though.
 
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