News: Top Ten Worst Selling Cars In America, 2010 Edition

[2Billion]

Interestingly, no. The Smart petrol gets 5.4l - the petrol version is that shit, Smart's numbers. The Smart's price is roughly in line with Fiesta prices - the Smart starts higher, in fact - and it's a useless piece of crap to boot.

Why can't Germans admit that something German is a big ol' pile of shit?

 

[katwalk]

You really don't think it's worth the 4 mpg and less than 2k of price difference? Keep in mind the base smart has no A/C, if you want a package up they are almost the same price.

 

[narf]

Interestingly, no. The Smart petrol gets 5.4l - the petrol version is that shit, Smart's numbers.

Even the 102hp Brabus turbo is rated lower at 5.2l, Smart's numbers as well.

The Smart's price is roughly in line with Fiesta prices - the Smart starts higher, in fact - and it's a useless piece of crap to boot.

The Fiesta starts at $13320 for the sedan, $15120 for the hatch. The Smart starts at $11990.

It's crap, yes... but so is a Fiesta.

Why can't Germans admit that something German is a big ol' pile of shit?

The Fiesta is made in Cologne. Big ol' pile of shit?

You really don't think it's worth the 4 mpg and less than 2k of price difference? Keep in mind the base smart has no A/C, if you want a package up they are almost the same price.

If you pack the Smart A/C for $600 you'll also have to spec an auto box in the Fiesta for $1050, increasing the price gap even more.
On the mpg, going by the insideline figures you'd buy an additional 37 gallons per 10000 mile year, another saving of $110 to $150 per year depending on fuel prices... adding another wad of cash saved over a few years of ownership.

 

[2Billion]

Ah, but the Fiesta isn't made by Mercedes, the Germanest of German manufacturers, but by Ford, which is sort of American.

And I pulled the numbers from Smart's website in my country - 5.4l is combined mileage, though I suppose city numbers are the only relevant ones because if you're on the highway in the Smart, you are mental - which also lists the Smart as starting $1k more than the Fiesta - reasonably equipped both are more, though Smart's website doesn't allow for configuration.

 

[katwalk]

Even the 102hp Brabus turbo is rated lower at 5.2l, Smart's numbers as well.



The Fiesta starts at $13320 for the sedan, $15120 for the hatch. The Smart starts at $11990.

It's crap, yes... but so is a Fiesta.



The Fiesta is made in Cologne. Big ol' pile of shit?



If you pack the Smart A/C for $600 you'll also have to spec an auto box in the Fiesta for $1050, increasing the price gap even more.
On the mpg, going by the insideline figures you'd buy an additional 37 gallons per 10000 mile year, another saving of $110 to $150 per year depending on fuel prices... adding another wad of cash saved over a few years of ownership.

Well the official Government website says savings of 61$, but the autobox makes it go down to 15$ per year. Unless of course you go by the User averages.
And once again REAR SEATS AND TRUNK. A smart is impractical and doesn't have any sort of fun benefit. 0-60 in a smart is slower than MY CAR. My car is fucking frightening to try to get onto the highway with and if you go with the higher figures the smart is a full second slower than mine and a bit under 3 slower than the fiesta.

 

[argatoga]

Adding a litre in displacement to a petrol engine while keeping the consumption identical is an additional 20? a year

Adding 10g of CO2 per km is also an additional 20? a year

Adding a litre of consumption per 100km is over 200? a year


The biggest money-saving motivation for going smaller and more compressed is to save fuel. Annual taxes are just an added bonus.

Has it always been that way though? It takes awhile to break a mindset.

 

[narf]

Ah, but the Fiesta isn't made by Mercedes, the Germanest of German manufacturers, but by Ford, which is sort of American.

Designed and built in Germany, who cares where the head office is?

And I pulled the numbers from Smart's website in my country - 5.4l is combined mileage, though I suppose city numbers are the only relevant ones because if you're on the highway in the Smart, you are mental - which also lists the Smart as starting $1k more than the Fiesta - reasonably equipped both are more, though Smart's website doesn't allow for configuration.

Canada, right? Going by city figures from up there, we're looking at 7.1l for the Fiesta and 5.9l for the Smart. That's 20% more, pretty consistent with most other figures' ratio.
Looking at the low entry price for the Canadian Fiesta, keep in mind it does not come with stuff like A/C.

Well the official Government website says savings of 61$, but the autobox makes it go down to 15$ per year. Unless of course you go by the User averages.
And once again REAR SEATS AND TRUNK. A smart is impractical and doesn't have any sort of fun benefit. 0-60 in a smart is slower than MY CAR. My car is fucking frightening to try to get onto the highway with and if you go with the higher figures the smart is a full second slower than mine and a bit under 3 slower than the fiesta.

If you need rear seats then don't consider a Smart. Fuel economy is irrelevant if the car's abilities do not match your needs.

The Fiesta autobox is a $1050 option. Saving $46 a year it would take 23 years to pay off.

Has it always been that way though? It takes awhile to break a mindset.

Fuel costs have always been massively greater than annual taxes, so higher fuel consumption always puts a bigger dent in your wallet than higher taxes at the same consumption.

The tax scheme has changed a bit, putting less cost on displacement and instead adding CO2 to the mix. That even increases the dent made by higher consumption because that inevitably means more CO2 tax.

 

[prizrak]

Even the 102hp Brabus turbo is rated lower at 5.2l, Smart's numbers as well.



The Fiesta starts at $13320 for the sedan, $15120 for the hatch. The Smart starts at $11990.

It's crap, yes... but so is a Fiesta.



The Fiesta is made in Cologne. Big ol' pile of shit?



If you pack the Smart A/C for $600 you'll also have to spec an auto box in the Fiesta for $1050, increasing the price gap even more.
On the mpg, going by the insideline figures you'd buy an additional 37 gallons per 10000 mile year, another saving of $110 to $150 per year depending on fuel prices... adding another wad of cash saved over a few years of ownership.

Go to first or second page, I posted price comparison of base model US Smarts vs other small cars. Keep in mind that a Smart is pretty much useless while Fiesta and Versa are actual real cars that have room for 4 people and quite a bit of cargo.

If you need rear seats then don't consider a Smart. Fuel economy is irrelevant if the car's abilities do not match your needs.

In that case it can go against a Miata, there are a million used ones and you can pick em up for next to nothing and they will run until the planet stops spinning.... Or a motorcycle, most are in the same price range and will go 0-60 faster than most cars. That's the problem with the Smart, it does nothing better than other cars and most things worse. Around here they are usually used as moving billboards btw.

 

[narf]

If you buy a motorcycle or MX-5 as your only motorized transport and actually would need four seats then you're as bad from a practibility point of view as someone buying a Smart in that situation.
A Smart only is a viable city car if you either have a second larger car or really don't need the room... quite obvious, really.

 

[Spectre]

The US-market Fiesta is built in Mexico. Not Germany - so the quality should be better - at least compared to some of the other German stuff I've seen lately.

 

[argatoga]

The US-market Fiesta is built in Mexico. Not Germany - so the quality should be better - at least compared to some of the other German stuff I've seen lately.

The U.S. Golf has been made in Mexico for years.

 

[Dr_Grip]

Why can't Germans admit that something German is a big ol' pile of shit?

I've said it before and i'm all too willing to repeat it: The Smart ForTwo is in my top three of worst cars i've ever driven, along with the Chrylser LeBaron and the Hyundai Getz.

 

[Spectre]

The U.S. Golf has been made in Mexico for years.

The German variants of the Golf that we get, such as the GTI, don't seem to be any better designed or assembled than the Mexican-made ones and sometimes are actually worse.

 

[argatoga]

Every country has made horrible cars at one point or another.

 

[MacGuffin]

Why can't Germans admit that something German is a big ol' pile of shit?

I believe I did that on the previous page. Maybe you should go back and read it.

It's strange, that whenever a German on this forum defends a German product against the stupid generalizations and utter nonsense certain forum members tend to garnish their contributions with (not looking at you personally now, 2Billion), they're under attack for being chauvinistic or blind on one eye.

We are aware of the shortcomings of certain German products. We simply don't see the need to point it out everytime and we definitely don't need to apologize for the occasional substandard crap that is made here, especially when the attack comes from someone who sits in a very big glass house (again not looking at you personally, 2Billion).

So yes, not everything made in Germany is world class quality. Bust more than from almost any other country

Tough luck. Get over it.

 

[prizrak]

If you buy a motorcycle or MX-5 as your only motorized transport and actually would need four seats then you're as bad from a practibility point of view as someone buying a Smart in that situation.
A Smart only is a viable city car if you either have a second larger car or really don't need the room... quite obvious, really.

See but this is my point. A Smart is only viable if you don't need either the space or have another car, but there are other cars that fit the same category and they are better in every single way. So again why would anyone buy a Smart?

 

[2Billion]

I believe I did that on the previous page. Maybe you should go back and read it.

It's strange, that whenever a German on this forum defends a German product against the stupid generalizations and utter nonsense certain forum members tend to garnish their contributions with (not looking at you personally now, 2Billion), they're under attack for being chauvinistic or blind on one eye.

We are aware of the shortcomings of certain German products. We simply don't see the need to point it out everytime and we definitely don't need to apologize for the occasional substandard crap that is made here, especially when the attack comes from someone who sits in a very big glass house (again not looking at you personally, 2Billion).

So yes, not everything made in Germany is world class quality. Bust more than from almost any other country

Tough luck. Get over it.

It was basically a joke on narf's breathless defense of the Smart, because it's one of those vehicles that there's not much incentive to defend (I'll mention one my countrymen are responsible for too, don't worry). Because, let's be honest, no matter what country the Smart is made in, it's a big ol' pile of shit. Why would someone defend what is, objectively, the most pointless car on the market in North America? It's slightly less pointless in Germany because you can get a diesel, granted. Not saying Germans, as a whole, need to admit every failing they have, just that defending the indefensible is kind of silly, and sometimes it does seem like a point of national pride, if only because, seriously, why are you defending this thing?

Also, I can admit when a Canadian-made car is ass gravy on wheels. The Chevy Impala is made (with pride, according to GM) in Windsor, Ontario, after all. While perhaps not as pointless as the Smart - it has a back seat, and shocking depreciation means it's a relatively new car for low-income families who don't have high standards - I'm not actually going to defend that pile of shit. The Impala isn't the only one either!

 

[MacGuffin]

A former colleague of mine lived in a house with his family and drove an Opel Zafira.

The marriage failed and they got divorced. She got the house and the Opel, where she now lives with the children.

He rented a small apartment under the roof of a former farmhouse and bought a Smart.

The last part made me feel really sorry for him.

 

[Jonesy]

See but this is my point. A Smart is only viable if you don't need either the space or have another car, but there are other cars that fit the same category and they are better in every single way. So again why would anyone buy a Smart?

Heh... since I have one, I'll throw in my anecdotal response! I lived downtown, don't ever need to carry much stuff... and, yes, it was my first car and I didn't really know much about cars when I bought it. And it was cute. It's still fine for almost all of my car needs, and it's admittedly still fun to squeeze into tiny spots in unmetered street parking where most others wouldn't fit. But if I did it over I wouldn't buy a Smart car again. The massive drop in sales numbers doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[narf]

See but this is my point. A Smart is only viable if you don't need either the space or have another car, but there are other cars that fit the same category and they are better in every single way. So again why would anyone buy a Smart?

What cars are there in its category? G-Wiz? P50? Even the Lupo was huge in comparison.

If you only need a single seat with little luggage space and only drive in the city then it's the best car you can get for fuel and parking put together. Obviously that applies to the Diesel or the micro hybrids more than the US petrol version.

If you occasionally need more seats, get another car.
If you occasionally need luggage space, get another car.
If you often drive outside the city, get another car.

I believe we all agree on these three things, if only one is true then the Smart is not the car for you.
However, if all of these problems are not an issue then it is a viable car for you.

Why would someone defend what is, objectively, the most pointless car on the market in North America?

That's the thing. Your subjective opinion is that it is pointless in the NA market. My subjective opinion is that there are lots of cars driven on slow commutes every day with a single occupant going into an overcrowded city, the perfect market for a Smart. Subjective opinions make it fail though. Power, number of cupholders, you name it. Some say you can't thread into a US highway with a car that does 0-100 in 12.something seconds. I say I managed fine threading into German highways with cars doing the same sprint in 17.5s (Fox, even slower with the N/A 1.7D T3).