Toyota. Does anyone really care?

Red_Bull

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While I'm looking forward to finding out about all the above facts and fictions myself, there was one gem from the show that is pure manure. Try this one for size. Toyota, notable for its very rubbish showing in Formula One every year since it started, is now claiming that it likes losing because it makes the brand seem human.

Eh? Toyota, the most competitive car company in the world, coming almost last in the most high profile race series in the world, makes us like it more? What utter pr rubbish. If that were the case we'd all be deeply in love with a Spyker. Which I'm not. Are you?

Look what I found in the the most recent Top Gear blog. What a gem of a statement by F1's perennial losers. They spend hundreds of millions a year just to generate a more 'human' brand? Utter rubbish, and we all know it. Anyway, because I couldn't think of a suitable thread for this to go in, I thought I'd make one where we can all discuss Toyota's involvement in Formula One. A living obituary if you will.

To sum up their F1 activities so far:

2002: Two points with one of the biggest budgets in the pitlane, and still finished level with Minardi and Arrows, who went bust halfway through the season.
2003: 16 points, beating Jordan and Minardi for 8th in the constructors.
2004: 9 points, still 8th.
2005: 88 points and 5th place, a big improvement, but then...
2006: 35 points and 6th
2007: 13 points, 6th in the constructors.

They got themselves embroiled in an espionage scandal by illegally obtaining 10 000 pages of Ferrari data which was incorporated into their 2004 design. No penalty. They even hired Ralf Schumacher at top dollar and the relationship was a total failure.

So what are your thoughts? How long can they remain in the sport, not winning? Does anyone actually care that they're in the sport at all?
 

GraemeH

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Well the underdog thing needs charm and personality to work. I liked the Minardi team a lot because of that. Toyota have the Minardi performance without any of the charm or character.

As for how long they can stay in the sport, well indefinitely. Toyota are hardly short of cash. It's just an ongoing marketing thing for them.

What I do get sick of is Toyota and Honda every 6 months promising their next 6 months will be better, and will be a turn around. Ok the first 5 times they said it. Now I just want them to shut up and get on with it.
 

jensked

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Well, if you count out all teams that perform badly, you'll end up with a season with only 3 teams...so it's good they're there.
 

pfrocker

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You have to think of the money involve with them. They're are a huge support for F1 financial needs, so F1 needs Toyota. The question is does Toyota need F1?
 

HondaF1

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Their setup is wrong. Based in Germany, decisions made by Japan. They need to move to the UK for starters and copy what Honda have done, and yes I know they did shit this year, but at least Honda gets the money from Japan then makes the decisions in the UK.

See Williams for an example of where Toyota should be.
 

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watto

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You don't get into F1, start losing and then say you're keeping your brand human. Stuff that for an idea Toyota! You go into F1 to win and if you don't, you say you'll make some improvements in the off season and be back better and stronger next year.

Keep the brand human? Pig's arse, Toyota.
 

-Cpt. J.-

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Every Prius sold will keep Toyota in F1 where they burn the fuel you could have burned.
Only, YOU could have fun doing it.
 

KaJuN

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To me, Toyota race cars are nothing more than fast moving billboards. At least Honda has the decency to provide us with some entertainment with spectacular engine failures and allowing us to make hilarious photoshopped pictures of their drivers "being more green" by walking back to the pits when their cars die. :lol:
 

Samir

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Toyota as a brand has so little to do with racing these days, I wonder why they're in F1 at all. The Nascar presence is easy - it has nothing to do with racing and it's all about getting Americans to think of Toyota as a local brand. F1, on the other hand - what's the point?

The days of Twin Turbo supra are long gone.
 

skip0110

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I don't know which Americans (especially the kind that watch Nascar) will think Toyota is local, not matter how many laps they turn or how well they do. I mean they have been in the Craftsman truck series for a while now but noone is fooled into thinking Toyota trucks are domestic. You never see Toyota trucks with the craftsman truck driver's numbers on them, for sure.
 

pfrocker

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You have got to be kidding me, are you for real?
This Top Gear blog has discussed it and that were I'm getting this from. I have to agree with it, it's better to see a team hanging on without worry and supporting the sport, rather than having teams that can be gone any minute. That's how it works in the financial side of it. Yes, it's not very exciting and I myself would love a better team, but that's the way it is and you just have to deal with Toyota in F1. I don't really like the team myself, quite frankly I make fun of them in many races. They have to change their operation to strive, but you can't deny that they are trying to succeed.

BTW as for their comment about being a "human" brand, it's just ludicrous

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/motorsport/004-will-toyota-ever-win-an-F1-race/
 
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mclarensmps

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This Top Gear blog has discussed it and that were I'm getting this from. I have to agree with it, it's better to see a team hanging on without worry and supporting the sport, rather than having teams that can be gone any minute. That's how it works in the financial side of it. Yes, it's not very exciting and I myself would love a better team, but that's the way it is and you just have to deal with Toyota in F1. I don't really like the team myself, quite frankly I make fun of them in many races. They have to change their operation to strive, but you can't deny that they are trying to succeed.

BTW as for their comment about being a "human" brand, it's just ludicrous

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/motorsport/004-will-toyota-ever-win-an-F1-race/

Ok, in that context I totally see where you're coming from. I think this school of thought is quite relevant in that, the prosperity of F1 now, more than ever is tied to manufacturer involvement in the sport. In that respect, I see what you mean by F1 "needing" Toyota to be sustainable.

Toyota's engine supply deals with multiple teams during their F1 tenure has most definitely been a help in keeping said teams alive. That said their own operation is absolutely pitifully run. They have one completely overpaid and underachieving driver, and another inconsistent driver who never showed the promise of being someone outstanding; they reshuffle their management the moment something goes wrong; and all their decisions are made by their board of directors, rather than actual team members.

If they don't fix these fundamentals, they will proceed to repeatedly get shafted over and over and over again. This is something I don't really mind either, for what it's worth.
 

Red_Bull

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The Toyota engines have been some of the best in recent years. Toyota's involvement in F1 goes back to the old manufacturer versus independent debate and whether manufacturers are good for the sport. Certainly the money they pump in brings benefits for all, but if they suddenly decide they're not receiving adequate returns (such as Ford) then they'll walk away. Manufacturers contribute to the rising costs of F1, pushing the independent teams (Jordan, Minardi, Sauber) out of the sport. Fortunately Toyota are happy with their 'human branding' program despite the lack of results, so presumably they'll be around for a while yet.
 

HondaF1

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If they sign Fernando with his bonus six-tenths and Toyota's bottomless pockets there's no way they can fail.

They'll stuff it up by dropping Trulli and signing a rookie who will outclass him again. I bet Alonso's contracts will now say, Has to be no. 1 driver.
 

Devon

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Well the underdog thing needs charm and personality to work. I liked the Minardi team a lot because of that. Toyota have the Minardi performance without any of the charm or character.

Well, if you count out all teams that perform badly, you'll end up with a season with only 3 teams...so it's good they're there.

With the budget they have, I would not class them as underdogs. With that sort of budget they should be a top team. Toyota are a complete failure in F1.
 
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