Trio Ethnic Backgound

The Roman occupation changed the Briton's society and culture dramatically, but I doubt you would have found many Romans who would have been willing to inter-marry with the Celts, who they considered to be beneath them.

Its a common misconception that the Normans all came over to England after 1066 and settled down. That wasn't actually the case. For the most part, only Norman aristocracy migrated from France to England after Hastings. As such, the effect of the Normans on the genetics of the general population is negligible.



P.S. I love the story of the battles of Stamford Bridge and Hastings. Tostig, Hardraade, Harold, William and one of the few moments in history where fate could take the world in any direction. The twists, the betrayal, the lone Viking warrior holding the bridge against Harold's army! A script-writer couldn't have come up with a better story.
 
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The Roman occupation changed the Briton's society and culture dramatically, but I doubt you would have found many Romans who would have been willing to inter-marry with the Celts, who they considered to be beneath them.

Brittunculi

However, that is a phrase from Vindolanda, right on the furthest northern reach of the empire. As Britain was part of the Roman Empire for 350 years, and eventually everyone being granted citizenship of Rome, you might imagine that there would be some kinds of intermarriage if not between British native citizens and Roman native citizens, then between natives and citizens from other parts of the empire.

There's an amusing letter from Vindolanda which is a request for new socks intended to be sent by an Eqyptian soldier to his mother back home in Egypt.

Its a common misconception that the Normans all came over to England after 1066 and settled down. That wasn't actually the case. For the most part, only Norman aristocracy migrated from France to England after Hastings. As such, the effect of the Normans on the genetics of the general population is negligible.

According to this guy they probably had as much impact as the Celts or Anglo Saxons

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7817

The Normans would have needed a lot more than a few toffs to 'conquer' England, and it's not like they came over for a few decades of violence either.


P.S. I love the story of the battles of Stamford Bridge and Hastings. Tostig, Hardraade, Harold, William and one of the few moments in history where fate could take the world in any direction. The twists, the betrayal, the lone Viking warrior holding the bridge against Harold's army! A script-writer couldn't have come up with a better story.

Yeah, if William the Bastard had jumped 1st rather than Harald Hardrada I might have a very different name for one. Also, if the Saxons had maintained the line rather than pursuing the fleeing Normans and breaking the powerful shield wall, things might have been different again. We might be using a somewhat different language for a start.
 
According to this guy they probably had as much impact as the Celts or Anglo Saxons

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=7817

Every established theory or piece of knowledge in the world eventually has somebody come along and try to make a name for themselves by saying its wrong. Until it is accepted by the historic community as a whole and taught in universities as fact, I'll take it with a grain of salt. A huge study of English genetics a few years back was actually able to show a rough border of where the people with Anglo-Saxon dominated genes became people with Celtic dominated genes, which confirmed the long held belief that the Britons had fled England into Wales and Cornwall when the Germanic tribes invaded.

Yeah, if William the Bastard had jumped 1st rather than Harald Hardrada I might have a very different name for one. Also, if the Saxons had maintained the line rather than pursuing the fleeing Normans and breaking the powerful shield wall, things might have been different again. We might be using a somewhat different language for a start.

That is exactly what I love about it. There are so many points in the saga at which the future of the world could have turned out differently.
 
Every established theory or piece of knowledge in the world eventually has somebody come along and try to make a name for themselves by saying its wrong. Until it is accepted by the historic community as a whole and taught in universities as fact, I'll take it with a grain of salt. A huge study of English genetics a few years back was actually able to show a rough border of where the people with Anglo-Saxon dominated genes became people with Celtic dominated genes, which confirmed the long held belief that the Britons had fled England into Wales and Cornwall when the Germanic tribes invaded.

From what I understand, the dominant genetic grouping is actually Iberian in all cases with Celtic, Saxon and other genetic groupings being a minor contribution.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_britishgene.html

You can argue with a Professor of Genetics at Oxford if you like, but unless you plan to do your own sampling you're gonna have to do better than 'previous guesses that I was taught disagree'.

EDIT: My bad I was getting Miles and Sykes mixed up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Sykes

They both pretty much say the same thing though
 
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Interesting reading.

Bryan Sykes said:
-The Anglo-Saxons made a substantial contribution to the genetic makeup of England, but in Sykes's opinion it was under 20 percent of the total, even in southern England.

-The Vikings (Danes and Norwegians) also made a substantial contribution, which is concentrated in central, northern, and eastern England - the territories of the ancient Danelaw.

-The Norman contribution was extremely small, on the order of 2 percent.

-There are only sparse traces of the Roman occupation, almost all in southern England.

-In spite of all these later contributions, the genetic makeup of the British Isles remains overwhelmingly what it was in the Neolithic: a mixture of the first Mesolithic inhabitants with Neolithic settlers who came by sea from Iberia and ultimately from the eastern Mediterranean.

With the exception of his "opinion" that the Anglo-Saxons only make up 20% of the genetic mix, I think you'll find that he agrees with most of what I've said so far in the thread. Viking blood in the north (former Danelaw); Norman and Roman invasions genetically negligible. As for the concentration of Anglo-Saxon genes, I'm afraid I can't quote a source for you as it was a documentary I saw several years ago, but the genetic tests done by those scientists showed a clear difference between the DNA of the bulk of the English people and those of Cornwall, Wales and Scotland. Perhaps both the scientists I saw and Prof Sykes were saying the same thing and the clear difference was the presence of 20% Anglo-Saxon DNA.

Meio said:
From what I understand, the dominant genetic grouping is actually Iberian in all cases with Celtic, Saxon and other genetic groupings being a minor contribution.

The Iberians are the Celts.
 
20% is not dominant.

The Iberians are the Celts.

Only if you take that Celtic = pre-Roman.

In a more strict sense, the Celts settled land the Iberians had already migrated to in neolithic times. This only really comes out through genetic analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberians

As you can see, the Celts were from Central Europe and were present in Iberia and Britain when the Romans wrote stuff down, but the Iberian natives were a distinct ethnic group even then. It is this Iberian ethnic group which, as suggested by genetic analysis, occupied pre-Celtic Britain.
 
Well back to the actual topic of the thread-

Jeremy appears to be descended from this species, which is famed for both its height and its tendency to put on a lot of weight in old age.
fatgiraffe.jpg



Richard appears to be descended from this species, which is famed for both its diminutive stature and its ferocious nature.
107698Gerbil_Stomper.jpg



Then of course, there is James-
cocker-spaniel.jpg
 
Well back to the actual topic of the thread-

Jeremy appears to be descended from this species, which is famed for both its height and its tendency to put on a lot of weight in old age.

Richard appears to be descended from this species, which is famed for both its diminutive stature and its ferocious nature.

Then of course, there is James-

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
Got enough smilies there? Do you know a certain Danish "not a dude" by any chance?

Cheltenham - Eagle Star FTW!!!! Guess for whom I used to work?
 
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