Turkish dictatorship!

Cowboy · Jul 16, 2016

Man it's Turkey, there's a stall with knock-off aviators on every street corner

calvinhobbes · Jul 16, 2016

shad_68 said:
I know, sounds like a conspiracy theory, but he is looking to profit from this immensely.

I've just listened to an interesting interview (in German) that touched on this issue: Ein kurioser Putsch: Interview mit Ayca Tolun. In short and in English: It's odd that the military did not start by arresting Erdogan, it's odd that the government did not severely restrict internet/social media access like it usually does in times of crisis, it's odd that TV experts/pundits were immediately available and it's odd that TV stations were able and allowed to provide real-time coverage... strange how Erdogan is set to profit so massively.

(source)

DanRoM · Jul 16, 2016

AiR said:
Oh cheers! It's only ?10 so let's gift some to the turkish military and once they've read it and done their homework try again next week with a better coup!

I really like this idea. Has to be done on a large scale.

Also yeah, the cui bono approach to politics suggests it's not unlikely this coup was...

... staged.

CD82 · Jul 16, 2016

It's not totally unreasonable to think that maybe the government knew about the coup, prepared as good as it could, and then just let it play out. Now they can just remove everybody they don't like from the military.

Interrobang · Jul 16, 2016

shad_68 said:
I find that notion odd. Yes, Erdogan won the last election... after systematically silencing the opposition and dissenting voices in the media. So the democratic legitimacy of his government seems dubious, at best.[...]

A Government and a President elected by the people should only be removed by said people in such a case. While there is and has been protest in Turkey, it?s not been huge, it?s not resulted in huge, long strikes etc. Erdogan's grab for more power in his office even resulted in his old party reclaiming the majority in parliament less than a year ago.
The People of Turkey can topple their government if they want. That they haven?t done that so far. I fail to see how this attempt of an coup was somehow "the will of the people". If anything, the turkish people are divided. Sure, a lot of them want him gone - but not enough ...

shad_68 · Jul 16, 2016

Interrobang said:
I fail to see how this attempt of an coup was somehow "the will of the people".

Not what I said at all. I just find it odd how many people are saying* that this coup was fundamentally wrong on the basis that it was aiming to oust a democratically elected government, when that government has been systematically working on undermining a lot of democratic principles, like freedom of speech and press or human rights. Both sides are acting undemocratically, because democracy is more than just free elections.

*I'm not trying to say that's what you meant, I just picked up on your comment because I've seen similar sentiments voiced in many other places.

CD82 · Jul 16, 2016

Turkey isn't exactly a shining example of western democracy. Erdogan systematically dismantles everything that could oppose him. Removes diplomatic immunity from parlament so that his political enemies can be declared supporters of terrorists and put away forever. Freedom of the press? Nope... Freedom of speech? Definitely nope (say or write something bad about Erdogan and you'll be prosecuted). He's even trying to silence people in other countries that "attack" him (remember B?hmermann?). Furthermore, he threatend members of the German Bundestag and questioned their "bloodlines" because they stated that the Ottoman government actually commited genocide when it systematically killed 1.5 millions Armenians a hundred years ago. (For contrast, just imagine how you'd feel about a high-ranking German politician telling you "Remember what happened during WW2? We don't actually believe that counts as genocide at all..." And then he/she goes on and tries to shut everyone up that says otherwise. You'd probably be scared quite a lot, because everybody that denies the past is bound to repeat former mistakes.)

So every time any politician talks about how they stand behind the democratically elected leader of Turkey I don't know if I should start laughing or crying. The simple reason for everyone to cozy up to Erdogan right now is because he promised that he can make all the refugees go away (for a "small" fee).

argatoga · Jul 16, 2016

I'm pretty sure the ultimate response to the Turkish military coup will be bombing the Kurds.

CD82 · Jul 16, 2016

Isn't that their response to everything anyway? Damn Kurds get off my lawn...

Cellos88GT · Jul 16, 2016

This failure does not play well in the Middle East theater...

jack_christie · Jul 16, 2016

jack_christie said:

Former Air Force Commander Ak?n ?zt?rk, dubed the mastermind behind coup attempt

argatoga · Jul 16, 2016

calvinhobbes said:
I've just listened to an interesting interview (in German) that touched on this issue: Ein kurioser Putsch: Interview mit Ayca Tolun. In short and in English: It's odd that the military did not start by arresting Erdogan, it's odd that the government did not severely restrict internet/social media access like it usually does in times of crisis, it's odd that TV experts/pundits were immediately available and it's odd that TV stations were able and allowed to provide real-time coverage... strange how Erdogan is set to profit so massively.

(source)

At the same time, if there were a conspiracy how was he able to mobilize 120 or so men for the faux coup? At best he knew there was a coup attempt and let it happen.

jack_christie · Jul 17, 2016

Erdogan has called the coup a "blessing from Allah"...

Why Turkey?s Coup d??tat Failed

And why Recep Tayyip Erdogan?s craven excesses made it so inevitable.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/16/why-turkeys-coup-detat-failed-erdogan/

CD82 · Jul 17, 2016

jack_christie said:
Former Air Force Commander Ak?n ?zt?rk, dubed the mastermind behind coup attempt

So he missed step two: Read the damn book.

Also, since Top Gun you probably aren't allowed into any Air Force anywhere on the world without owning Aviators.

Eunos_Cosmo · Jul 17, 2016

At this point I'm all but convinced this was a Reichstag Fire.

jack_christie · Jul 18, 2016

At height of Turkish coup bid, rebel jets had Erdogan's plane in their sights

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-plot-insight-idUSKCN0ZX0Q9

Eunos_Cosmo · Jul 18, 2016

jack_christie said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-plot-insight-idUSKCN0ZX0Q9

The bullshit piles up. I suppose we'll never have actual evidence of any of these other "attacks"

jack_christie · Jul 18, 2016

Anyone reports of a couple of rogue choppers?

Turkey was already undergoing a slow-motion coup ? by Erdo?an, not the army

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/16/turkey-coup-army-erdogan

mpicco · Jul 18, 2016

Seems odd how a coup by an air force high ranking officer did not have any significant support from the air force...

calvinhobbes · Jul 18, 2016

mpicco said:
Seems odd how a coup by an air force high ranking officer did not have any significant support from the air force...

But the Sultan, I mean President, only narrowly escaped air force fighter jets in his private plane! Honest!

Erdogan was just 'minutes from death' as two rebel F-16 fighters had his presidential jet in their crosshairs but didn't open fire during military coup, government claims

Turkish dictatorship!

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