U.S. Isolated by Stance on Global Warming

zenkidori

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pfft, bring global warming on, I hate the winter. Hopefully California will sink into the sea along with Utah and Nevada, then I can have some beachfront property on the western slope.

Temperature rise isn't nearly as big an issue as depletion of CO2 sinks should be.
 

Firecat

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Re: the fox news article.

What do you guys think about all these hurricanes, earthquakes...the tsunami. Is it just a coincidence? Or is something seriously going on with the environment? Are things going to get worse?
 

zenkidori

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I think climate change is a reality, but there is evidence of it happening long before industrialization, so I'm skeptical that we are 100% to blame for it.

A far more pressing issue is the depletion of CO2 sinks, basically stuff that absorbs or converts CO2. If a large sink is used up the open air CO2 concentration will rise exponentially. I'm ok with melting glaciers and tropical climates, so long as I can breathe. There have been periods of stange and even catastrophic weather patterns in the past, but we're still here.
 

jayjaya29

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Yes but you forget one thing.

If the overall temperature of the Earth rises a few degrees, so with the oceans of the world. It is basic knowledge to know that when a liquid warms, the amount of dissolved gases (in this case CO2) it can hold is decreased. So if the temperature increases, the oceans warm up, and the amount of CO2 the oceans will hold drops. The ocean holds the most CO2 in the world, if the ocean temps rise a few degrees, the lost "storage" space could be catastrophic.

Firecat said:
Re: the fox news article.

What do you guys think about all these hurricanes, earthquakes...the tsunami. Is it just a coincidence? Or is something seriously going on with the environment? Are things going to get worse?

First off, earthquakes and tsunamis have nothing to do with the world climate, they are natural geographic processes, which we have no control over. As for the increased intensity of hurricans, I think it is somewhat related to the increased temperature and shifts in wind patterns, water temps, etc etc. I think we are starting to finally feel the effects of the climate heating up, even if by 1 degree, it makes a large difference in the world. I wouldn't be surprised if we have another large hurricane season next year.
 

zenkidori

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jayjaya29 said:
Yes but you forget one thing.

If the overall temperature of the Earth rises a few degrees, so with the oceans of the world. It is basic knowledge to know that when a liquid warms, the amount of dissolved gases (in this case CO2) it can hold is decreased. So if the temperature increases, the oceans warm up, and the amount of CO2 the oceans will hold drops. The ocean holds the most CO2 in the world, if the ocean temps rise a few degrees, the lost "storage" space could be catastrophic.
Indeed, that's why I favor shifting focus from global warming to CO2 sinks, if you can solve that problem than global warming is almost a non-issue. The amount the seas will rise is also subject of heated debate in the scientific community, nobody really knows what will happen or how high they will get. Also remember that the oceans rising means they get deeper, it's always going to stay cold down deep, so it may in fact increase as a CO2 sink.

There is also that "day after tomorrow" theory thing as well, tho I don't buy it.
 

jayjaya29

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zenkidori said:
jayjaya29 said:
Yes but you forget one thing.

If the overall temperature of the Earth rises a few degrees, so with the oceans of the world. It is basic knowledge to know that when a liquid warms, the amount of dissolved gases (in this case CO2) it can hold is decreased. So if the temperature increases, the oceans warm up, and the amount of CO2 the oceans will hold drops. The ocean holds the most CO2 in the world, if the ocean temps rise a few degrees, the lost "storage" space could be catastrophic.
Indeed, that's why I favor shifting focus from global warming to CO2 sinks, if you can solve that problem than global warming is almost a non-issue. The amount the seas will rise is also subject of heated debate in the scientific community, nobody really knows what will happen or how high they will get. Also remember that the oceans rising means they get deeper, it's always going to stay cold down deep, so it may in fact increase as a CO2 sink.

There is also that "day after tomorrow" theory thing as well, tho I don't buy it.

Ehh, I don't see your reasoning, if the oceans deepen, that means they will be warmer. And it is always cold down deep, but how is the CO2 going to get there if the top is warm. Unless I am really tired, that doesn't seem logical.

Other than that I agree with you for the most part.
 

zenkidori

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I'm just musing, niether of us are oceanographers, my area is marine biology, and at an amateur level at that. I don't really know how CO2 is transmitted to the deeps, just that water is a huge sink. Perhaps a larger volume of water would make up for a decrease in efficiency. There's no replacement for displacement, heheh.
 

MPower

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zenkidori said:
I think climate change is a reality, but there is evidence of it happening long before industrialization, so I'm skeptical that we are 100% to blame for it.

A far more pressing issue is the depletion of CO2 sinks, basically stuff that absorbs or converts CO2. If a large sink is used up the open air CO2 concentration will rise exponentially. I'm ok with melting glaciers and tropical climates, so long as I can breathe. There have been periods of stange and even catastrophic weather patterns in the past, but we're still here.
Thats really my whole point about climate change. Fact is that it has happened thousands of years before today. There is evidence that Antartica was a tropical paradise. But, note that was thousands of years ago. There were no cars, no industry, no nuclear powerplants, etc. Yet it happened. So, I dont think that we are entirely in control of our own destiny. The thing for me is just that I hate having smog all over the cities. Recently, here, it has been beautiful but sometimes it is pretty bad.
 

justin syder

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What do you guys think about all these hurricanes, earthquakes...the tsunami. Is it just a coincidence? Or is something seriously going on with the environment? Are things going to get worse?

Its a cycle. In the 50s or 60s there were hurricanes that had similar dammage and that cycle is just repeating or starting over.

The thing for me is just that I hate having smog all over the cities. Recently, here, it has been beautiful but sometimes it is pretty bad.

Dude, when I flew into L.A. from Dallas the skyline was just a foggy shit of smog. I don't know how you guys breathe out there but NY can't be that much cleaner. My point is that from the plane you could see the smog and when we touched down it was sunny so it wasn't a fog. It was something to see.
 

jayjaya29

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zenkidori said:
I'm just musing, niether of us are oceanographers, my area is marine biology, and at an amateur level at that. I don't really know how CO2 is transmitted to the deeps, just that water is a huge sink. Perhaps a larger volume of water would make up for a decrease in efficiency. There's no replacement for displacement, heheh.

I doubt it, the amount of water that would be added would not make up for the oceans being warmer.
 

zenkidori

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Of course water at say 85 degrees doesn't really significantly lose an ability to hold gases, only when heated a good deal, like 200+, and that shit ain't happening.

California, specificaly LA is horrible, here you can see mountains from MILES and MILES away, but out there foothills are hard to make out past the brown, and your eyes are always red and shit, blech.
 

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I'm no expert in this area of knowledge and quite frankly i have no idea whether or not these resent astonishing acts of nature are caused by global warming. What I do know though is that people need to take their individual responcibility for being as energy sufficient as possible. Also, imo, the anwser to the problem is not to restrict usage of energy but in reasearch for new more energy sufficient energies. This might sound a bit strange considering where we are right now, I love cars and petrol as much as any of u guys. There is nothing like the thrill of drivin?g a petrol powered car and hearing the engine revving but quite frankly i don't give a shit in what kind of car i drive to work and for shopping etc. If anything cheaper and more environmentally friendly comes along i wouldn't wait a second for buying it, or would u?

Sry if i went a bit OT, but that is basically my point of view on this whole issue.. ;)
 

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A Range Rover does less 'damage' than a cow. And cows are as natural as the grass. I'm with the scientists that say mans contribution to global warming is a myth.
 

///M

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Have you seen how much bullshit industrial plants burn?

Head out to any industrial area and tell me if the air is clean. What you see now is a fraction of how bad it was before regulations were put in to control what was coming out of smoke stacks/being dumped into rivers. The damage's already done, though.

Stop getting your facts from Jeremy Clarkson. Pollution isn't just coming from cars, although they are a big factor.
 

flyingfridge

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I'm not getting my facts from Clarkson, i had that opinion prior to even knowing Top Gear existed and I'm sticking to it.
 

haha604

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Ttemperature rise in the atmosphere affects the direction of ocean currents. A consequence would be a much colder Europe because currently warm ocean currents keep Europe warmer than it otherwise would be.

Arguing about global warming is pretty pointless anyway since none of us know jack about it.
 

MPower

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zenkidori said:
California, specificaly LA is horrible, here you can see mountains from MILES and MILES away, but out there foothills are hard to make out past the brown, and your eyes are always red and shit, blech.
What is scary (and good in a way) is that it is significantly better than it was twenty years ago.
 

zenkidori

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haha604 said:
Ttemperature rise in the atmosphere affects the direction of ocean currents. A consequence would be a much colder Europe because currently warm ocean currents keep Europe warmer than it otherwise would be.
Yeah I saw that movie too, I don't really buy it.
 
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