UCLA (university of california, los angeles) tazer incident

Shawn

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To me the issue boils down not to racism or unfair rules, it boils down to excessive use of force... the use of a weapon on this kid was unwarranted. There are far less consequential and extreme measures which the cops could have used on an unarmed person... it's not like he could've even physically attacked the cops, there was 3 of them.

Here's the issue... if the cops had not shocked him, would either the cops or the students on the scene get hurt? No... so why did they hurt him? I mean pre-emptive strikes can be used by the police, but not in a situation were there is such a small chance of things getting worse.

But I guess you already agree that the cops are nutheads Jeffy... ;)
 

TC

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The cops are trained. How good their training is is unknown, but they were trained. I believe all cops are required to feel the full effects of pepperspray and/or tasers before being allowed to carry and use them. I could be wrong, but I believe that is the case. These cops had to deal with this kid face to face, all we know is what we can see in this short poor quality vid, which is only really good for it's audio.
 

Janus

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Personally I think the actions of the police was far to heavy handed. Yes, the student may have escalated the situation but by the sounds of it he was being a dick but leaving and it wasn't until they put a hand on him, which they had no right to do without provacation. I would expect that kind of response to someone who was armed or was actually attacking them or something. It is insane to tazer someone just because they wouldn't leave.

I watch "Cops" and am constainly amazed by the actions of the various police departments around America. Yes I understand that it is rather dangerous being a police officer in some areas of the US, but if I got pulled over for speeding, overed out of my car at gunpoint, handcuffed, searched, questioned, and generally knocked around I would be calling my government reps and calling my lawyers. Yet this is standard practice for a traffic stop over there.

Surely the cops must have known they were doing something wrong by the outrage of the people in the area. I am seriously surprised that the crowd didn't attack the police in an attempt to stop it. But I don't think the growds aggression didn't help that much as I think it made the officers scared and zap the guy more to get him out of there faster.

I'll just say that if anything like that happened in Australia there would be outrage, it would be discussed in Parliament and heads would roll, probably both the officers on the scene and, depending on the actions after, maybe even the superior officers.

It is insane that this kind of heavy handed police work is considered standard practice.
 
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jeffy777

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Fact of the matter is something like this would be far less likely to occur outside of the US... that's it.

That may be true, but it still happens elsewhere:

Czech Police KILL raver at CzechTek:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/08/320214.html

The British government released a report that found that London's police force is rife with "pernicious and institutionalized racism."
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0357222

Italian police beat prisoners unconscious:
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article318852.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1457920.stm

Budapest's police used rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannon against stone-throwing anti-government protesters:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6080188.stm

Swiss Police nearly kill two protesters:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/oxford/2006/02/333966.html

This organization is devoted to what's going on with Toronto police:
http://ocap.ca/news/victoryagainstcops
http://ocap.ca/casework/police/jamaconviction
http://ocap.ca/node/882
http://ocap.ca/node/107
http://ocap.ca/node/103

That's just the results of a quick search.....
 

Shawn

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Yes they are required to feel the effects of those things but how does that relate to this discussion? It's human nature to not learn from the past, I don't see how having been shocked will keep you from doing it to others.

The cops are trained. How good their training is is unknown, but they were trained. I believe all cops are required to feel the full effects of pepperspray and/or tasers before being allowed to carry and use them. I could be wrong, but I believe that is the case. These cops had to deal with this kid face to face, all we know is what we can see in this short poor quality vid, which is only really good for it's audio.
 

TC

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Yes they are required to feel the effects of those things but how does that relate to this discussion? It's human nature to not learn from the past, I don't see how having been shocked will keep you from doing it to others.
The cops know what happens when you're tased. They know what the human body can and cannot do during and after the shock.
 

jeffy777

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Yet this is standard practice for a traffic stop over there.

That's such a line of baloney. The show COPS just shows the more violent stuff that they think will be more interesting.
 

Shawn

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Yes and Canada has this for itself but just look it up and see how many cases of it you find in the US... far more I would guess, which is exactly what I said Jeffy.

That may be true, but it still happens elsewhere:

Czech Police KILL raver at CzechTek:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/08/320214.html

The British government released a report that found that London's police force is rife with "pernicious and institutionalized racism."
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/04/07/0357222

Italian police beat prisoners unconscious:
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article318852.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1457920.stm

Budapest's police used rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannon against stone-throwing anti-government protesters:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6080188.stm

Swiss Police nearly kill two protesters:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/oxford/2006/02/333966.html

This organization is devoted to what's going on with Toronto police:
http://ocap.ca/news/victoryagainstcops
http://ocap.ca/casework/police/jamaconviction
http://ocap.ca/node/882
http://ocap.ca/node/107
http://ocap.ca/node/103

That's just the results of a quick search.....
 

Shawn

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Or they know what it feels like, don't care and just want to give this idiot a bit of a ruffing up? Who knows...? Plus I am sure people have different levels of reaction to getting a shock...

Please don't bring useless facts into this discussion and try to defend them.

The cops know what happens when you're tased. They know what the human body can and cannot do during and after the shock.
 

TC

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Or they know what it feels like, don't care and just want to give this idiot a bit of a ruffing up? Who knows...?

Please don't bring useless facts into this discussion and try to defend them.
Better useless facts, then useless biased opinions. :rolleyes:
 

jeffy777

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but just look it up and see how many cases of it you find in the US... far more I would guess, which is exactly what I said Jeffy.

I know you're are right and I won't try to make excuses for it. Well, maybe one: the US has a lot more large cities than Canada for instance. In 2002, the US was the 3rd most populated country were Canada was way back at 35.

In any case, the majority of the police brutality takes place in the cities, so I'm glad to be out in the middle of nowhere :)

Shawn said:
But I guess you already agree that the cops are nutheads Jeffy... ;)

yup
 

andyhui01

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maybe he wasn't leaving and the cops had to escort him out and he refused to cooperate so they had to taser him... but just curious, is the Taser supposed to be used as a torture/punishment tool to get them to cooperate or just to calm someone down so you can handcuff them?
But I think no matter what happens, the kid is going to win the case... the other 4 tasers were completely unnecessary if he was already in custody.

And tomcat, yes the kid was being a bonehead, but which teenager or college kid hasn't done stupid things like that to Authorities or been a bonehead? So if I were to shout at a police officer, it would be okay for him to shout at me or threaten me?... it is the police's job to calm the situation, not escalate it... yes the student started it, but isn't that always the case and therefore the police has to go there to calm the situation? Therefore the police won't start anything so the police are never to blame?
 

jeffy777

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But I think no matter what happens, the kid is going to win the case... the other 4 tasers were completely unnecessary if he was already in custody.

Yes, you're right: that really is the bottom line here.
 

TC

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And tomcat, yes the kid was being a bonehead, but which teenager or college kid hasn't done stupid things like that to Authorities or been a bonehead? So if I were to shout at a police officer, it would be okay for him to shout at me or threaten me?... it is the police's job to calm the situation, not escalate it... yes the student started it, but isn't that always the case and therefore the police has to go there to calm the situation? Therefore the police won't start anything so the police are never to blame?

The police are there to enforce the law, not play therapist. You might find some cops who act like Dr.Phil hostage negotiators, but that's not their job. Their job is law enforcement to protect the public as a whole. Which is exactly why the school had a ID rule to begin with.
 

andyhui01

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The police are there to enforce the law, not play therapist. You might find some cops who act like Dr.Phil hostage negotiators, but that's not their job. Their job is law enforcement to protect the public as a whole. Which is exactly why the school had a ID rule to begin with.

so Tasering civilians is protection? yes, I know cops are there to enforce the law but they are also there to calm to situation down and try to solve the problem by causing as little trouble to the general population as possible... if he did just lie on the floor, the cops should have just carried him out, Tasering him would not calm the situation let alone aid their objective of escorting him out the library as he would by temporarily paralyzed... I'm not saying the cops were 100% wrong for tasering him the first time as I wasn't there but there was definitely a better way to handle the situation and this would not have happen if a more experienced officer was here... I don't know about the states but in Hong Kong, we got in trouble with the cops once and even though we were trying to be funny and stuff, we got treated with Respect and all they did was trying to talk to us and calm the situation, not getting threatened with a nonlethal weapon.
 

Shawn

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That is where you are so, so wrong. They should not have to turn to their last resort right off the bat... some sort of diplomacy has to be used before you can go on the offensive and take the person into custody.

The police are there to enforce the law, not play therapist. You might find some cops who act like Dr.Phil hostage negotiators, but that's not their job. Their job is law enforcement to protect the public as a whole. Which is exactly why the school had a ID rule to begin with.
 

TC

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so Tasering civilians is protection? yes, I know cops are there to enforce the law but they are also there to calm to situation down and try to solve the problem by causing as little trouble to the general population as possible... if he did just lie on the floor, the cops should have just carried him out, Tasering him would not calm the situation let alone aid their objective of escorting him out the library as he would by temporarily paralyzed... I'm not saying the cops were 100% wrong for tasering him the first time as I wasn't there but there was definitely a better way to handle the situation and this would not have happen if a more experienced officer was here... I don't know about the states but in Hong Kong, we got in trouble with the cops once and even though we were trying to be funny and stuff, we got treated with Respect and all they did was trying to talk to us and calm the situation, not getting threatened with a nonlethal weapon.
The cops didn't know who this kid was or why he was essentially trespassing on a college campus or why he was refusing to leave or show identification to be there. The cops don't know what the kid was up to or why he was being difficult. The cops were there to enforce a rule that was put in place to keep unauthorized people off college property to try and keep criminals away and students safe. This kid was making himself look like a criminal and refusing to cooperate with college officials or the police. If you play with fire, you get burned.

There are plenty of officers who are very patient and nice. Some are so cool to the point of loosing their jobs, like this cop: http://forums.finalgear.com/showthread.php?t=14884

But you can't act the way that kid was acting and expect to get off scott free. We have rules and laws for a reason. If you want to break them, then you only have yourself to blame when you get taken down... hard. I have no sympathy for this kid. The cops went over-board with the taser, but they were correct in using force to remove him from the premises.

That is where you are so, so wrong. They should not have to turn to their last resort right off the bat... some sort of diplomacy has to be used before you can go on the offensive and take the person into custody.
We already know that diplomacy was attempted multiple times to no avail. The cops didn't walk in, see the kid, and taser him 5 times. We only know what happened after physical force was decided.
 

jeffy777

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if he did just lie on the floor, the cops should have just carried him out, Tasering him would not calm the situation let alone aid their objective of escorting him out the library as he would by temporarily paralyzed... I'm not saying the cops were 100% wrong for tasering him the first time as I wasn't there but there was definitely a better way to handle the situation and this would not have happen if a more experienced officer was here...

The cops went over-board with the taser, but they were correct in using force to remove him from the premises.

I agree with both of you guys on those points.
 
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