UK cops can now fingerprint on the fly

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Made In the USA

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'Licence, registration and fingers, please'

Police will now be able to fingerprint drivers at the roadside with an electronic fingerprinting device linked to the national database that can compare prints with 6.5m held on file.

The police say this will be a real boost to identifying those using false driving licences and identities. The Bedfordshire force is set to be the first of 10 to trial the machines. Other forces include Essex, Hertfordshire, Lancashire, Metropolitan, North Wales, Northamptonshire, West Midlands and West Yorkshire, plus the British Transport Police. The pilot scheme is called Lantern and police will need the permission of the driver to take their fingerprints. Police minister Tony McNulty said: 'The new technology will speed up the time it takes for police to identify individuals at the roadside, enabling them to spend more time on the frontline and reducing any inconvenience for innocent members of the public.'

Currently, the police have to arrest a suspect and fingerprint them at a police station. Inspector Steve Rawlings, of Bedfordshire Police based in Luton, said: 'This device can reduce a roadside encounter to 15 minutes rather than three hours in the police station.' Inspector Rawlings also pointed out that fingerprints taken at the roadside would not be stored for future use.

Police intend to use roadside fingerprinting in conjunction with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology. When a suspect vehicle is stopped, police will be able to identify the driver and passengers. Approximately 60% of suspect drivers give false details when stopped.

However, civil liberty campaigners have criticised the new fingerprinting device, saying it is another step towards a national database of all drivers' fingerprints. source
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Project Lantern

Leave the inevitable device failure and user error aside, is the UK's Big Brother going to far?

"Alarm bells are ringing Willie."
 
Made In the USA said:
Project Lantern

Leave the inevitable device failure and user error aside, is the UK's Big Brother going to far?

"Alarm bells are ringing Willie."
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I have no problem with this. You have to give permission and your prints are not stored so I don't see what complaints people could have.
 
As long as it's not required, I don't see the big deal. It'll be helpful.
 
I don't like it - it's one step down the slippery slope of Big Brotherdom.
 
The pilot program is voluntary, but if the bill is past then it could be implemented at the officers disgression. And if it gets to that point, how would the cops cross reference your prints with your vehicle registration if your prints where not stored on a database?

As far as I am aware the only time you get finger printed in the States, except for the example I gave in the OP, is if you are actually arrested and booked, and not for just being pulled over.
 
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I believe that Britain has the highest concentration of surveillance cameras of any Western country.
 
I dont see what the problem is, if you dont get into trouble in the first place then you dont get fingerprinted!
Plus, it may help to identify the twat whose stolen ure car!!!
 
Shadowness said:
I dont see what the problem is, if you dont get into trouble in the first place then you dont get fingerprinted!
Plus, it may help to identify the twat whose stolen ure car!!!
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very good point, surely you guys in here love your cars, and if theres fool whos stole it, ragging it around and gets pulled up.. he will probs have past offenses, and despite givin a false identity, which they probs would, they can be identified and you know for sure who needs a good beating
 
Yeah, it may seem good from a certain point of view, but can't they do something simpler, like putting a magnetic strip on the back of a driver's liscense that the cops can swipe to identify a fake id? It'd be rather convienant, too. They swipe your card and in 5 days you get a traffic ticket in the mail. Reduce traffic stops from 15 minutes to 5. Besides, if you do something that warrants being in a police station for 3+ hours, I doubt the cops are going to let you go after 15 minutes. Not to mention that in order to do something like inputing fingerprints into the system without going to the station, they'll need to do it there...

Personally I think the bad in this outweighs the good, and while this may be "voluntary" for now, what about the future? And if you're a bad guy on the run, you can just refuse and be on your merry way...unless it's like Florida with the breathilizer test. Refuse to test, you get your liscense automatically revoked for 6 months...
 
Shadowness said:
I dont see what the problem is, if you dont get into trouble in the first place then you dont get fingerprinted!
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Ah, but you don't have to be in trouble to be fingerprinted - you could have a perfectly innocent reason for not carrying your wallet (forgot it at home etc). And let's say that's what I did, and I got pulled over and couldn't prove my identity - so the cop wants to fingerprint me, and I object, how does that make me look to the cop?

And as for it being a voluntary act on behalf of the driver - it's still a step in the wrong direction.

Shadowness said:
Plus, it may help to identify the twat whose stolen ure car!!!
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I've had a car stolen, so I know what it feels like. But if heading down this slippery slope is the price I'd have to pay for potentially finding the thief - I'll pass thanks.
 
zenkidori said:
Remember 1984 wasn't set in America.
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And also remember its a work of fiction.

I really don't see what possible problem people could have with this could be. It's voluntary and it doesn't store your fingerprints anyway so who gives a fuck.
 
That's basically my sentiment. I'd like to think it will bust some un-insured/un-liscenced/un-taxed drivers, so i'm ok with going along with it.

And i'm as anti-big-brother as anyone.
 
Peter3hg said:
And also remember its a work of fiction.

I really don't see what possible problem people could have with this could be. It's voluntary and it doesn't store your fingerprints anyway so who gives a fuck.
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I don't like the idea of state-run biometric programs, and if they don't store it, what are they checking it against? Just for the fun of it?

We have a fingerprint program here as well, when you get a new ID they scan your right index finger, I'm not such a huge fan of it.

Besides the big brother implications, a lot of people don't understand just how flawed and relativly easy to beat this type of technology is. There are pretty easy ways to fake fingerprints and beat fingerprint scanners(think Gattica), but since it uses fingerprints people think it's fool proof and put far too much faith in the system.

In light of all that I view these types of systems as a way of making the public feel better at the expense of thier privacy with no real security benefit. There's a lot of that going on these days.
 
zenkidori said:
I don't like the idea of state-run biometric programs, and if they don't store it, what are they checking it against? Just for the fun of it?
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I think it's not to check against a fingerprint registered for your car, but for wanted/known criminals. For example if the guy driving the car is suspected of being wanted for something else they can check right there.
 
zenkidori said:
I don't like the idea of state-run biometric programs, and if they don't store it, what are they checking it against? Just for the fun of it?
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They'll check it against the national police database which is fair enough. You'll only be on there if you have a criminal record.
 
GraemeH said:
I think it's not to check against a fingerprint registered for your car, but for wanted/known criminals. For example if the guy driving the car is suspected of being wanted for something else they can check right there.
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First of all you missed this...
Police intend to use roadside fingerprinting in conjunction with Automatic Number Plate Recognition technology. When a suspect vehicle is stopped, police will be able to identify the driver and passengers. Approximately 60% of suspect drivers give false details when stopped.
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Secondly; how do they have the criminals fingerprints? If they are wanted that implies that they have yet to be arrested, therefore their fingerprints may not be in the database. The scene of the crime for which they are wanted may not have given the police adequate fingerprint evidence. If all the police have is a name, then a nation wide fingerprint database would be needed. Also in another article I read about the same program, it mentions that the system could be used in the future to find illegal immigrants. How would that work if the greater population's finger prints weren't on a database?

Again this is just a pilot program, which means that this programs objectives and procedures may not be the same if a bill is passed to make the program go nation wide.

As one person already said, this could be one more step down a very slippery slope.
 
Made In the USA said:
Secondly; how do they have the criminals fingerprints? If they are wanted that implies that they have yet to be arrested, therefore their fingerprints may not be in the database. The scene of the crime for which they are wanted may not have given the police adequate fingerprint evidence. If all the police have is a name, then a nation wide fingerprint database would be needed. Also in another article I read about the same program, it mentions that the system could be used in the future to find illegal immigrants. How would that work if the greater population's finger prints weren't on a database?
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They have their fingerprints as most criminals are repeat offenders and are likely to have been arrested earlier. As for the illegal immigrants it would onyl work for the ones who have been through all the immigrations precedings.
 
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