Undeniable signs of Global Warming

narf

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when it starts effecting crops (you know, those things we eat to survive) that?s when it becomes a problem. I mean in the sense of failing harvests and farmland being flooded by rising sea levels
It'd be too late though if we wait for enough precendents like that :cry:
 

wooflepoof

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I think that whether the Earth is warming up, cooling off or just deciding to fuck with us we should pursue "green" technology. Of course politicians and other assorted nut jobs fuck it up. But that's no reason to say that we should just ignore this. At the very least you have to realize that our current infrastructure is based on very finite resources and that developing real alternatives isn't just a fun way to spend billions of dollars; it is necessary to maintain our standard of living and potentially our very lives.
Here's what we know:
1. The earth is heading up
Here's what we don't know:
1. The main causes
2. Whether or not the main cause is something humans are doing
3. Whether or not we can do anything about it, even if we are causing it
4. How to actually go about doing it if we could

The whole point is that it WILL affect our standard of living, possibly for no reason, and could even do harm in the long run. We nave NO idea whether its "necessary" or not to spend these billions of dollars you speak of. The only thing we can (barely) seem to agree on is that the the earth is indeed getting warmer. As for everything else, its anyone's guess.

If it was a case of "Oh its going to be slightly warmer" then we wouldn't be too fussed, but when it starts effecting crops (you know, those things we eat to survive) that?s when it becomes a problem. I mean in the sense of failing harvests and farmland being flooded by rising sea levels, as well as people being affected by floods, which happens more and more in Britain, and I'm sure those houses/railway lines/roads/shops/offices weren't intentionally built on land that floods every year.
If it ever got to a point where crops failed to grow because of the heat (unlikely, as we have greenhouses made to heat crops; its often a condition we find desirable) There's always genetically modified crops and selective breeding that can fix that problem too. That's the LEAST of our worries. And I'm not going to bother looking for the data but I'm fairly certain that the vaaaaaast majority of farmland is on the mainland and away from danger of these rising sea levels.

The only thing that would cause failing harvests would be to convert totally to "green" organic farming. All other arguments against it aside(and there are many), this would set us back to a time when crops DID fail all the time, and for no apparent reason.
 
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the Interceptor

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I made this thread some time ago, asking whether we should fight climate change (given we could) even if we knew it was not caused by us. The majority of FinalGear voted no. Might be of interest to some...
 

tigger

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The whole point is that it WILL affect our standard of living, possibly for no reason, and could even do harm in the long run. We nave NO idea whether its "necessary" or not to spend these billions of dollars you speak of. The only thing we can (barely) seem to agree on is that the the earth is indeed getting warmer. As for everything else, its anyone's guess.
You know what will actually affect our standard of living in the long run? Oil becoming prohibitively expensive, with no viable alternative. You do realize that crude doesn't just bubble up out of magical fountains in the desert, right? ;)
 

wooflepoof

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You know what will actually affect our standard of living in the long run? Oil becoming prohibitively expensive, with no viable alternative. You do realize that crude doesn't just bubble up out of magical fountains in the desert, right? ;)
Its not going to run out anytime soon, despite the eco-whiners objections. No need to go crazy with the green movement spend that money and energy developing nuclear fusion and hydrogen power or something
 

narf

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Starting to develop these technologies when oil has run out or is about to in the next few years will be too late.
 

wooflepoof

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by few years, you mean few decades but whatever

3 decades of steady technological advancement
>>>


We'll be fine
 
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tigger

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Its not going to run out anytime soon, despite the eco-whiners objections. No need to go crazy with the green movement spend that money and energy developing nuclear fusion and hydrogen power or something
by few years, you mean few decades but whatever
Why wait? You acknowledge it's a finite resource, that it's going to become prohibitively expensive within our lifetimes ... then say; fuck it we'll figure it out later? :? Nearly everything you come into contact with, clothes, tools, medicine, etc etc etc could not be made without oil. If you can't understand how effectively "running out" of it with no immediately available alternative wouldn't completely fuck us ... I don't even know what to say. We absolutely have to find alternatives now if we want to maintain our quality of life.
 

wooflepoof

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Why wait? You acknowledge it's a finite resource, that it's going to become prohibitively expensive within our lifetimes ... then say; fuck it we'll figure it out later? :? Nearly everything you come into contact with, clothes, tools, medicine, etc etc etc could not be made without oil. If you can't understand how effectively "running out" of it with no immediately available alternative wouldn't completely fuck us ... I don't even know what to say. We absolutely have to find alternatives now if we want to maintain our quality of life.
Why wait? because to try and rush scientific development isn't practical and not something you can just throw money at to get what you want.

I'm not saying "fuck it figure it out later" I'm saying all this running around with our heads cut off pumping out regulations and burning cash because of climate change and other green nonsense when we're nowhere near any sort of consensus as to whats going on is ridiculous. We do need to develop alternative sources of energy, but saying we've only got a few years left is basically fear mongering, and will work against us in the long run. As if its the average Joe is going to develop the solution for our dependency on oil by being forced to buy a car that gets at least 35 mpg and by being forced to recycle paper and glass
 
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LittleRed

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No one is being forced to do anything...

The fact that hotter weather is better for some crops isn't true for others, and weather thats too hot can destroy crops as well, dehydrating the ground and them. (Had a big old convo with my dad about it, he grows his own food so he knows what hes talking about.) Like I said earlier too, I doubt all those homes etc were built on land that easily floods, but it still did and no doubt they'll be more flood news next year.

I don't have any knowledge of scientists being put under pressure to create new sources of energy, we have renewable sources already. I'm not sure anyone is running around without their head on, just lots of research is underway from what I understand, which is what you need before you run around without your head.

BBC website is really interesting for climate change, it argues both sides as well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/hi/climate


and just a note on pollution *COUGH LOUDLY*http://forums.finalgear.com/political-discussion/chinese-pollution-in-pictures-by-lu-guang-39880/ *COUGH*
 
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tigger

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Why wait? because to try and rush scientific development isn't practical and not something you can just throw money at to get what you want.
Sure you can. No doubt there's a point of diminishing returns, but we're nowhere close to it.

I'm not saying "fuck it figure it out later" I'm saying all this running around with our heads cut off pumping out regulations and burning cash because of climate change and other green nonsense when we're nowhere near any sort of consensus as to whats going on is ridiculous. We do need to develop alternative sources of energy, but saying we've only got a few years left is basically fear mongering, and will work against us in the long run. As if its the average Joe is going to develop the solution for our dependency on oil by being forced to buy a car that gets at least 35 mpg and by being forced to recycle paper and glass.
I hate the fearmongering, all the PR/PC/whatever bullshit, etc etc, that's going on. And there is a lot of bullshit regulation being passed as well (did California go ahead and make black cars illegal?) But that doesn't change the fact some of the problems are real. And a lot of this technology is already out there, I just want to see more of it being used.
 

kurthest

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Dunno if this has been posted here:

[YOUTUBE]KvufOvneJMk[/YOUTUBE]
Goes to show the level of intelligence these eco-mentalists possess :p

On another note, the cold weather is getting ridiculous now. We could use some global warming up here in the northern part of Europe!
 
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Lilleput

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Eco-mentalists remember a set number of bulletpoints they then replay them and if you disagree they repeat them again but louder.

Talking about weather change with everyday normal people is actually a lot like that video, maybe a little less intense but most people, if you ask them will tell you they believe in global warming, like it's the most obvious thing in the world, they will then if you question them start to vaguely quote news stories that they can't really remember and that al gore video that they can't really remember either, but global warming is really dangerous and we should all ride a bicycle!
 
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narf

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Your link also claims other regions of the earth are unusually hot right now. Current weather patterns are no indicator for or against any global warming, cooling, wetting, drying, ... :tease:
 

kurthest

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That might be so.

Some swedish scientists claims today that Skagerrak (the ocean between Norway, Denmark and Sweden) might ice up if the cold persists for 2 more weeks. Thats pretty crazy.
Anyone for a 20 hour iceskating session from Kristiansand in Norway to Fredrikshavn in Denmark? :p
 

AiR

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On another note, the cold weather is getting ridiculous now. We could use some global warming up here in the northern part of Europe!
Well that's why it's called climate change and not global warming, because it'll affect some places differently. Equatorial climates will become much warmer (which basically will fuck up Africa even more) and other places (like here) will get quite cold.

Some swedish scientists claims today that Skagerrak (the ocean between Norway, Denmark and Sweden) might ice up if the cold persists for 2 more weeks. Thats pretty crazy.
Anyone for a 20 hour iceskating session from Kristiansand in Norway to Fredrikshavn in Denmark? :p
Time to invade Denmark again!
*rallys the troops*
 
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