Autoblog: Undisguised 2012 Porsche 911 caught in Germany

AudiV6

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Wow, I thought they can't make a new 911 anymore without that it looked like the old one, but it sort of looks new again, I mean yes the lights are still hidden by transparent stickers, but still, it looks fresher, well done Porsche! :)
 

Lastsoul

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Incredible, not the 991 but the station. That was the last station I filled up my MX-5 during my year long stay in Stuttgart. http://bit.ly/rppAzu and 0:35 in the Video. That's the Esso station in Vaihingen Hauptstra?e. It has only been a week since I returned to Finland, but already brought huge amount of flashbacks. But the prototypes drove often on that street, so no wonder. So apparently I missed seeing the 991 only by a week :|
 

The Spie

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Well it's simple. You are wrong.

No.

A car that is as successful as the 911 has been and still is (both as a road car and race car) and sells in such great numbers

Not in my country it doesn't.

clearly isn't broken. The design is simply just an immortal classic that still continues to win races as well as it sells. It's simply a living legend...

Everything has its day, and the 911's has long been over. It's just forgotten to die.

It's not beyond criticism, but said criticism should make sense. Characterizing it as a "gangrenous limb" doesn't.

No, but it's quite vivid. If it doesn't make sense to you, how about this for a body-part-related analogy: the 911 is Porsche's appendix. At one time, the appendix assisted human digestion. Now it's vestigal and can only cause trouble. It's long been infected, it's causing systemic poisoning, and it requires removal before it bursts and kills the body.

Repeating the same old Clarkson-drivel about "Beetle on steroids" etc. doesn't either.

I don't need to regurgitate Jeremy. I just don't like the 911, I don't like the Americans who drive them (who generally behave like assholes on the road), and my dislike has colored my view of all Porsches because Porsche insists on putting its design cues into every single car they make.

The same argument can be made against the Corvette,

Maybe Corvettes in Europe possess the same type of drivers that 911s in the US do, but not Corvettes driven here. There is no such thing as a typical Corvette driver. They represent all ages, ethnicities, and, surprisingly, genders. The one thing they have in common is love for the Corvette.

any Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini, or in fact any expensive sports car wearing a premium badge. Newsflash: Idiots like to show themselves off in expensive cars.

True. But the 911 drivers are only part of the problem. Porsche's insistence in keeping the look virtually unchanged, and then incorporating the look into their whole range, is the main problem. Even the Mustang and Corvette have evolved their looks over the years. What's the problem in Stuttgart?
 

Paul_The_Aussie

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mmmmm GT3 can't be too far away :)
Just finished reading a review of the GT3 RS 4.0. Can't wait to see Porsche out doing that one.

As for the styling argument, the 911 sells in decent numbers to the market speaks well.
The haters are usually the people who could only dream of only such a car.
 

marcos_eirik

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No.



Not in my country it doesn't.



Everything has its day, and the 911's has long been over. It's just forgotten to die.



No, but it's quite vivid. If it doesn't make sense to you, how about this for a body-part-related analogy: the 911 is Porsche's appendix. At one time, the appendix assisted human digestion. Now it's vestigal and can only cause trouble. It's long been infected, it's causing systemic poisoning, and it requires removal before it bursts and kills the body.



I don't need to regurgitate Jeremy. I just don't like the 911, I don't like the Americans who drive them (who generally behave like assholes on the road), and my dislike has colored my view of all Porsches because Porsche insists on putting its design cues into every single car they make.



Maybe Corvettes in Europe possess the same type of drivers that 911s in the US do, but not Corvettes driven here. There is no such thing as a typical Corvette driver. They represent all ages, ethnicities, and, surprisingly, genders. The one thing they have in common is love for the Corvette.



True. But the 911 drivers are only part of the problem. Porsche's insistence in keeping the look virtually unchanged, and then incorporating the look into their whole range, is the main problem. Even the Mustang and Corvette have evolved their looks over the years. What's the problem in Stuttgart?
Are you trolling....?

The US has always been the biggest single market for Porsche with more than 1/4 of their global sales, with the highest number of 911s sold, more than 13000 units sold in 2007 with an obvious decrease due to the recession, and the fact that the 997 is due to be replaced. When the 991 is released, expect those sales to rise again, just as when the 996 was replaced by the 997.

How has the 911 forgotten to die? It's a performance icon that continues to win races (like it has always done, since it was introduced), and is praised by pretty much everyone who drives them. How can you say it's "had it's time", and should be discontinued? If you have a recipe for success that has been proved to work over the years (in this instance since 1963) and still works incredibly well as is proven by it's previous and current success on the race track and as a road car, you will have to be monumentally stupid to throw all of that out of the window and start on a blank sheet. Fortunately Porsche knows and understands this and continues to make the 911.

Also, saying the 911 is Porsche's appendix is just as stupid. What do you base this upon? On the contrary actually, the 911 is the very reason Porsche became the massive success it is today.

When it comes to hating a car because of some of it's owners, that's plainly silly. It's not the cars fault that you behave like an asshole. Also whether american 911 drivers are assholes or not, I might think FG users like nugget have something to say about that. I also refuse to believe that there is a larger percentage of assholes driving 911s than pretty much any car carrying a premium badge, as they are all sold to the same owners. That said, I have actually lived in the US, spent a semester at a college as an exchange student, and have also visited the US on a couple of other occasions.

Also, the 911 has evolved over the years, just put them next to each other, and you'll see. It's funny you mention the Mustang, as Ford decided to return to the retro 60s look, along with others.

But then again... Haters gonna hate...
 
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racingfan1

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I think I'm to the point where I'll only consider buying a Porsche if they got rid of everything but the 911 altogether.

FTFY.

Maybe Corvettes in Europe possess the same type of drivers that 911s in the US do, but not Corvettes driven here. There is no such thing as a typical Corvette driver. They represent all ages, ethnicities, and, surprisingly, genders. The one thing they have in common is love for the Corvette.

Have you been to a Corvette meet? It's nothing but middle-aged to older couples talking about how they got 40mpg on the highway just the other day by not taking the car out of 6th, or how many groceries the trunk will actually hold, that is if they don't take the Lexus.

What I'm saying is, if you don't like the 911, stay out of a thread about the 911. Let thos of us who are 911 fans drool all over it.
 

marcos_eirik

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I wonder why they call it the 991 and not the 998?
It's not easy to say. There is a big numerical gap from 964 to it's successor, the 993, and also to it's successor the 996. In many ways the 997 was just a thoroughly updated 996, while this 991 is a completely new car with only the engines (with improvements, obviously) carried over for the Carrera models and possibly also the Turbo. According to the engineers the 991 will be the third all new 911 since 1963, and with the exception of the engines, an equally thorough makeover as the 996 was to the 993.
I rather like the look of it.

Clarkson is wrong. Actually the Porsche stylists must have the hardest job of all to keep the thing looking fresh and at the same time pretty much the way it always has done.
I agree very much. Getting a computer to spit out the most aerodynamically efficient shape possible isn't hard. Modernizing and making a classic shape (created before aerodynamics were the priority) perform aerodynamically like the former is much harder.
 
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MWF

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Seems like it's GRTak's naptime. :wheelchair:

Someone remember to wake him up in time for Matlock.
 

argatoga

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Porsche, putting J Mays to shame. :p

I do like it. I've never had any issues with the 911. The look has been refreshed enough to keep it modern and they are for the most part solid sports cars.
 

GRtak

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I am awake, just bored by the "new" 911. Not that it is a bad thing. The worst part is all the bickering about it.
 

The Spie

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...if you don't like the 911, stay out of a thread about the 911. Let thos of us who are 911 fans drool all over it.

I presume that it's your dream to own one at some point in time. I just wish that your aspirations would be channeled toward a better unobtainable car. And that you come to realize that not everyone thinks your dream car is the most perfect, wonderful thing in the world, and some of those people aren't afraid to say so.
 

Aston Martin

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Is it the 998? What happens after 999?
Why go from 964 to 993 to 996?
 

racingfan1

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I presume that it's your dream to own one at some point in time. I just wish that your aspirations would be channeled toward a better unobtainable car. And that you come to realize that not everyone thinks your dream car is the most perfect, wonderful thing in the world, and some of those people aren't afraid to say so.

I wouldn't mind owning one, though I wouldn't say it's a dream. There's many other cars that money no object, I'd choose well before the 911. I also don't recall saying it was perfect. I do recall, however, pointing out the flaws in your Corvette argument and that if you don't like the car, don't comment in a thread about that car. Just ignore it, like I'm doing with the Lexus GS and Chevrolet Cruze threads.
 

TBossM

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I like it. I only started liking Porsche this year, I'm not sure why, I guess I've been seeing them a lot more.

As for the pro-Porsche/anti-Porsche argument, are the pro-Porsche people trying to get the other anti-Porsche people to like the Porsche?
I think once you find that you can't convince a hater to like something then your argument is pretty pointless.
 

LeMans GTR

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It's not easy to say. There is a big numerical gap from 964 to it's successor, the 993, and also to it's successor the 996. In many ways the 997 was just a thoroughly updated 996, while this 991 is a completely new car with only the engines (with improvements, obviously) carried over for the Carrera models and possibly also the Turbo. According to the engineers the 991 will be the third all new 911 since 1963, and with the exception of the engines, an equally thorough makeover as the 996 was to the 993.

I agree very much. Getting a computer to spit out the most aerodynamically efficient shape possible isn't hard. Modernizing and making a classic shape (created before aerodynamics were the priority) perform aerodynamically like the former is much harder.

Thanks for the answer and I do agree as about Porsche's designers having a difficult choice as well. Your point about getting a computer to make the most the most aerodynamically efficient shape possible brought me to an idea. Do car designers actually design a car from scratch these days or do you think they punch a blob into the computer with some parameters for the height of the car, length, angle of windscreen etc. and then alter the design which is produced by the computer?
 

Interrobang

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Someone needs to make an Obama-style poster with a 911 on it and "no change!" underneath ...

As for the design ... I?m not sure they are going into the right direction. It seems a lot more "butch" now even when not being a Turbo or GT3 and I find that wrong ... the "lesser" 911s shouldn?t make such a big, agressive impression. That should be reserved for the top of the range ...
 

marcos_eirik

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Someone needs to make an Obama-style poster with a 911 on it and "no change!" underneath ...

As for the design ... I?m not sure they are going into the right direction. It seems a lot more "butch" now even when not being a Turbo or GT3 and I find that wrong ... the "lesser" 911s shouldn?t make such a big, agressive impression. That should be reserved for the top of the range ...
You're not alone in bemoaning the loss of the old narrow body style that died away with the 964. The 993 was the first 911 that also sported flared arches on the base model. You could say that the 996 Carrera had a narrow-ish body, but the doors were relatively thick, compared to those of the old generation, so it only gives the visual impression of being narrow, but is still relatively wide. So you could say the base 996 Carrera disguises it's width better than the base 997 Carrera.

The reason for the wide arches of the recent cars is as they get heavier over the years, you have to fit fatter tires to them to keep that extra bulk in check. Then, you also have to strengthen the chassis to keep that grip in order, which adds more weight... A vicious circle...
 
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