Unions?!?

nouseferaname90

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
2,628
talk away, points of view about unions, state of current events about unions, how they should be changed, what ones work, what ones don't.

the goal of this is to try and attempt to get the union talk to stay here instead of filling many other threads and detracting from the main thread in other sections

I'll suggest carrying over from the ford thread first...but people can take it whichever way they want

at the top of the post you make, please type out whether you are specifying North American, European, or Asian
 
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European and US unions are two totally different beasts, so perhaps some differentiation should be made. My opinion of American unions is well known, but to get this started, let me repeat a point I made there:

Unions are the only organizations exempted from the racketeering and extortion laws. If they are so great, why can't they do their jobs without resorting to tactics that are illegal for everyone else?
 
You can't treat the working man this way! One of these days we'll form a union, and get the fair and equitable treatment we deserve! Then we'll go too far, and become corrupt and shiftless, and the Japanese will eat us alive!
Unions in theory, good, sadly they become corrupt, greedy and ruin everything.
 
i hate unions, all they do is go on strike from the moment a company tries to secure it's future by laying off some employees
 
I am a happy union member.

https://pic.armedcats.net/k/kn/knarkas/2009/12/22/logo_ifmetall.gif

Here's the avalible information in english on what they do and their history.
http://www.ifmetall.se/ifmetall/home/home.nsf/docs/Welcome-070226.pdf/$FILE/Welcome-070226.pdf

i hate unions, all they do is go on strike from the moment a company tries to secure it's future by laying off some employees
Not if the layoffs are necessary. It is in the interest of the members to keep their jobs and thats why the unions work together with the employers to both keep the company running see to that the workforce is being treated fairly.
 
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Unions, in the old day, had a purpose.

Workplaces really were unfair and downright dangerous. They had something to fight for. They had a right to work in a place that gave them fair wages and a safe place to work.

And you know what? They won.

Scores of laws that protect workers and ensure fair and safe workplaces have been enacted since unions started fighting for what they deserve... but they didn't stop fighting once they got it. It's gone from "fighting for what's right" to "fighting for more". And that's where modern unions fail.
 
There's plenty of unsafe workplaces still in existance where protective equipment is not fitted until something has already happened, and then there's the case of employers trying to circumvent the legal framework by using companies like Manpower and Adecco (firing the staff and re-hiring them via such companies) so there's still lots to fight for and not just personal greed.
 
And you know what? They won.
Workers may not have to work in life-threatening environments anymore (mostly), but there are always issues that have to be dealt with and that are too strong for the individual worker to face. The days of unfair employers who exploit their employees wherever possible are not and never will be gone. For example employers spying on their employees. Sure, people can sue them, but it's much easier with a union backing you up.

That said, I'm not a union member. It would be quite pointless in my job.
 
The world has changed - the rate for my job has been declining as a guy/gal in India can do it for 25% of my cost.

So I have to bring something to the party he/she can't, in my case it is the benefit of whingeing - I can out whinge almost all other POHMS on the planet!

Oh wait, that is not a good thing, is it? Gulp!!!

Unions have not managed to stop our jobs going "off shore". Any how I do not belong and I look after myself - if I have an issue I bring it up - it gets fixed, more of less, and if I do not like the place I go else where; some where they need my skills and do not want to go the cheap route - I do not need some lefty oik to speak up for me.
 
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I'm a contractor in a public sector organisation in Ireland. There has already been one 24 hour strike this month and word is there will be a work to rule in the new year. Everyday they strike, I lose money. And I'm self employed, one man band, in a foreign country.

And you know what? I support the unions.

Because Irelands economy is in the crapper. It is bad, real bad. The Gvt forced a pay cut on the public sector last year and the budget last week enforced another - 5% for those on ?30,000 or less, sliding up to 15% at the top end.

All to fix a problem that was not of their making. The Irish banks got nationalised, and there are new reports on stupid loans including a politician getting ?1.6 million to buy a property worth ?1.5 million without even cursory checks. This is on top of the bank chairman giving himself ?100m in loans - in total, the directors of AIB lent ?178m of the banks money to themselves!

Yet it is nurses, clerks, social workers who are being forced to pay for it. And the unions aren't taking it lying down. They are fighting for the little guy, who is struggling to pay their mortgage.

So if someone wants to generalise union members as grasping lazy freeloaders, then I'll happily characterise all Texans as right-wing, gun-toting morons. Because it isn't the case, and as the bankers get back to being high on the hog and the politicians refuse to prosecute them, instead preferring to blame the little guy and his credit cards, then I'll not cross a picket line.

Yes, BA cabin crew were wrong to strike over Christmas. That will be the same BA that has been totally screwed over by its own management and reduced to a pale shadow of itself. The same management that sent people out with video cameras to film their own employees on a lawful strike.

So when a union goes on strike, at least here in the UK, it is generally because the management have been in the finest traditions of British leadership, absolutely hopeless.
 
I'm on the fence when it comes to unions. In some industries (or just some workplaces) they are still necessary. OSHA laws, workman's comp, etc etc doesn't fix terrible management. There is no way to legislate that. And while it may dent a companies bottom line,they keep people employed.

I'm a Teamster. Spectre knows how much fun these guys are. The upside is that I make silly money for what I do and the benefits package is great. They also kept a few guys employed when they quit running the shop 24/7. People they need, despite what management thinks.

The downsides are that my schedule is pathetically inflexible. The union wants me to have every minute of 40 hours a week and management doesn't want me to have one minute over. I can't swap days off with someone or cover their shift. Not without practically calling a conference, anyway. It's also a nightmare to fire someone even when everyone (workers and management) agrees that person should be fired.

A whole other problem is just the terminology I'm using; "workers" and "management". The Teamsters seem to have a thing for creating this divide in the workplace. It doesn't help that the shop manager's idea of motivating everyone is to tell them they'll get fired, get their ass kicked, etc (that's a small reason I support the union: he'd still be an asshole if the shop was open and he'd have a lot more power). But anyway, that's the way everyone frames things. It's annoying to say the least.
 
Depends on the union. They can be good or bad.
 
Plissken: I am deliberately witholding comment on everyone's posts here, but I thought I'd mention that a blanket statement on unions doesn't really work as elsewhere unions do not seem to protect lazy freeloaders whereas here they not only protect them but elect/promote them to offices in the unions, such as shop steward.
 
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Fucking lazy, good for nothing, son-of-a-bitch Teamsters. That is what I think of them.

I hate the Teamsters. Other unions though? I do not like their practices, but they are angels compared to those rat fink summamabitches Teamsters.
Once a UAW rep came to "speak" to us, and in typical union fashion, they sent a man who was large and intimating. The stupid son of a bitch had no clue of how to deal with counter arguments, and was laughed out of our building.
 
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Fucking lazy, good for nothing, son-of-a-bitch Teamsters. That is what I think of them.

I hate the Teamsters. Other unions though? I do not like their practices, but they are angels compared to those rat fink summamabitches Teamsters.
Once a UAW rep came to "speak" to us, and in typical union fashion, they sent a man who was large and intimating. The stupid son of a bitch had no clue of how to deal with counter arguments, and was laughed out of our building.

There are many reasons why I bailed from the Teamsters (while still on the job) - and the UAW are just as bad from what I've read, heard and seen.
 
Australian... Victoria (The heart of Australian unionism)

They represent very different ideals from what the used to, these days it seems to be holding a company to ransom if they don't get what they want (e.g. Australia post striking at Christmas or the beer strikes that used to happen)

In all honesty most of their functions are regulated through government bodies anyway (as they should be, safety shouldn't be unique to people who are in the union)
 
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