Unions?!?

Scooby5

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Thatcher single handedly destroyed most of the "bad" unions back in the 80's and now the UK has very little industry to call its own.......however, it does still have the industry itself.

All the while BL and the coal mines were going out on strike our rivals were rubbings their hands in glee to such a point now the British motor industry is either Japanese or German, but at lest alive. Coal and Steel is the same though there, fundamentals of cheaper production play a larger role.

If you believe the Daily Fail this week about the salary, perks and lifestyle of the not so humble BA cabin crew you'd argue Unite might be one of the rogue unions that got through, holding BA over the preverbial barrel while milking the cow that feeds them. No matter how good their lot, they want more and the union is letting down BA, the cabin crew and the country and for what preservation of their 20-30% higher benefits than their counterparts in other airlines.

Globalisation, safety and work condition laws worldwide now mean the unions only argue about money that more than likely injures the company in which they work.
 

tigger

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Plissken: I am deliberately witholding comment on everyone's posts here, but I thought I'd mention that a blanket statement on unions doesn't really work as elsewhere unions do not seem to protect lazy freeloaders whereas here they not only protect them but elect/promote them to offices in the unions, such as shop steward.
I'm curious about your experience with the Teamsters. I understand if you don't want to go into more detail though. While I think the union makes things unnecessarily complicated, I also feel that it's a good thing in my shop (even if it is the Teamsters ... #1 union in 'merica herpderp :rolleyes: ). Mostly because, as I mentioned earlier, the shop manager is an asshole. The shop steward is a good guy though; works hard.
 

Plissken

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If you believe the Daily Fail this week about the salary, perks and lifestyle of the not so humble BA cabin crew you'd argue Unite might be one of the rogue unions that got through, holding BA over the preverbial barrel while milking the cow that feeds them. No matter how good their lot, they want more and the union is letting down BA, the cabin crew and the country and for what preservation of their 20-30% higher benefits than their counterparts in other airlines.
Those salaries were fought for when times were good, and although I agree that everyone has to make sacrifices in a recession, the cabin crew are being made to pay largely because BA has been run into the ground.

To give you an example. Manchester Airport is the fourth busiest in the UK, handling 21 million passengers. And how many countries can you now fly from Manchester to with BA?

None. Nada. Zip. And by the way, when I say countries, I'm including Scotland and Ireland in that.

BA offer either London Gatwick or London Heathrow to people flying from Manchester. That is it for 21 million passengers. BA operated a Manchester-JFK service for 54 years, I took many flights to Edinburgh on full BA planes.

You see, all BA management care about is business passengers, especially those flying from Heathrow to New York. That is it. So they pulled all their regional flights connecting the cities and let other operators step in. Result... everyone got used to not flying BA, and with the "we try harder" principle in place, realised that the BA premium wasn't worth it. (BMI knock spots off BA in my experience.)

You can fly to JFK with American Airlines. They can provide a service... BA cannot, despite 54 years of practise. (And it was a 747 BA were using, too) Is it me or is something wrong with that picture?

BA expect all their passengers to fly through London. Not bloody likely, especially as people wanted to get to Edinburgh, Belfast, Glasgow, Dublin or into Europe.

Manchester isn't alone - BA contracted from most regional airports and decided that the ordinary passenger didn't matter, without realising that the market was ordinary passengers. FLybe, BMI, Ryanair, Easyjet all stepped into the gaping void. Meanwhile, BAs precious business passengers got told to fly economy by their companies in search of value for money, and BA couldn't even open Terminal 5 properly.

I'm beginning to rant now (quelle surprise) but the reason a once great airline is on its knees is not because of overpaid cabin crew and unions, it is because for the last decade and a bit (remember the tailfin design debacle?) a once-great airline has been run by absolute morons.
 

AiR

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I'm reading about a case now where a woman was paralyzed from the waist down after a pallet of heavy goods fell ontop of her when she worked. That sucks to begin with, but it gets worse as the store (which is, surprise surprise, Lidl) fired her. The store didnt report the accident and now they refuse to acknowledge it took place which means the insurance wont pay out. Of course it's highly illegal but they're betting on a paralyzed mother of two not having the geist to fight them.

Asshole companies like Lidl are still around, even in this day and age, and unions still have a purpuse to serve.
 
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DanRoM

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Asshole companies like Lidl are still around
And it shows that customers don't care or don't even have a conscience. It's widely known that Lidl is one especially shitty employer who is cheap exactly due to exploiting their staff like this and people keep shopping there. :(
 

Steve Levin

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Those salaries were fought for when times were good, and although I agree that everyone has to make sacrifices in a recession, the cabin crew are being made to pay largely because BA has been run into the ground..
Perhaps the answer was to never compensate them better during all the years where BA had huge success? Then they would be right back where they started, when BA was a total mess. BA as a "great airline" was a very small, very narrow window of its history. The endearing term "Bloody Awful" isn't new, you know. Heck, the entire reason for the Bermuda treaties was to keep BA from being run out of business.

The bottom line is, if you want to benefit when things are good for reasons beyond your control (good management) then you get to suffer when things are bad for reasons beyond your control.

Unions have brought a lot of good things to the workplace, but at the same time, especially in recent years, their agreements have become very one-sided faux profit sharing agreements where the unions have said "oh, look how good things are, we want some of that" whilst shirking the downsides.

Steve
 

H0nzik

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And it shows that customers don't care or don't even have a conscience. It's widely known that Lidl is one especially shitty employer who is cheap exactly due to exploiting their staff like this and people keep shopping there. :(
I, for one, can say that I've never even been inside a Lidl shop. Though I often use their parking lot as a shortcut to bypass a traffic jam.:lol:
 

AiR

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We should create a Social Group for "People who never will set their foot in a Lidl store" :yes:
 

Cucciolotto

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We should create a Social Group for "People who never will set their foot in a Lidl store" :yes:
In principle I agree with you. I can financially afford to shop wherever I wish so I don't need to shop there.
And it shows that customers don't care or don't even have a conscience. It's widely known that Lidl is one especially shitty employer who is cheap exactly due to exploiting their staff like this and people keep shopping there. :(
It is not all white or black: for those in the need, for students with little money LIDL is heaven, plus it has good quality food from the continent. And they DO employ people (being stretched I give you that but still better off than queuing at the Job Centre).
Just like Ryanair really, as an employee you wished you were somewhere else but you'd rather work than get handouts. And as a customer you wished you were somewhere else but God is it cheap and eventually does what it says on the tin, more often BETTER than the bigger brand (from A to B on time with your luggage, which is more that can be said about **!)

If disaster struck and my wife and I were to lose our jobs I can categorically say that I'd have no qualms going back to Lidl or Aldi.
 
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DanRoM

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It is not all white or black: for those in the need, for students with little money LIDL is heaven
I know, I know. For most of my friends, discounters are the default place for shopping, and LIDL is the closest store to the university here anyway. And I can't say most of my friends are evil. ;)
And if I have to choose between discussing capitalist ethics or just go along with them and do the party shopping at LIDL (or similar)... ;)

And they DO employ people (being stretched I give you that but still better off than queuing at the Job Centre)
I feel better supporting "normal" stores who also employ people (that said, Edeka had a spy scandal recently, too). But I am helped by the simple fact that I just feel more comfortable at a normal supermarket than at a discounter - the presentation of the goods, the manners of the employees, the appearance of the other customers... perhaps I'm a bit of a snob... ;)
 
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