US - 8 states want 3.3 million zero emission vehicles by 2025.

...and when your car is parked at home or at the hypermarket it could provide the grid with buffering capacity.
 
...and when your car is parked at home or at the hypermarket it could provide the grid with buffering capacity.

Smells like communism.
 
Smells like communism.

No. I said a few posts ago, you need to figure out the economics. I'm not saying "give away your capacity", I'm saying "charge the power companies for using your capacity". That's capitalism.
 
Smells like communism.

Smells like power engineering to me. It's not easy to store a bunch of energy so you have to be innovate with the solutions to keep the cost down.
 
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Can't see anything wrong with encouraging people to buy an EV for their commuter car... :dunno:

By the end of this year there will be no less than two Tesla Model S in my family. My brother has ordered one (85kw-version) and my parents will replace the Jaaaaaag S-type with one (also 85kw) Makes a load of sense in Norway, as you don't pay a single dime in tax for it (Not even VAT), you don't pay congestion charge, you can drive in the bus lane. Also, Norway has rather low utility costs. Makes even more sense in Askim where they live (where I grew up), as we have three large hydropower stations here. In Oslo there's free parking with free charging for EVs, also, Tesla is currently constructing their Supercharger network here. Then there's also the fact it will outrun anything this side of an M5. You get all of this for the price of a generously specced Passat...

My dad considers taking it to an AM-car (it's as American as anything there...) meeting after it arrives, just to Troll them... :p
 
So buy low, sell high like the stock market is communism?

Don't forget that it's likely to get 'normalized' soon. They're already talking about changing the tax structure so the cost of operating an electric car will go up to match that of a gasser and it's pretty inevitable that this will happen. Yes, including a 'vehicle charging tax.'
 
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Can't see anything wrong with encouraging people to buy an EV for their commuter car... :dunno:

By the end of this year there will be no less than two Tesla Model S in my family. My brother has ordered one (85kw-version) and my parents will replace the Jaaaaaag S-type with one (also 85kw) Makes a load of sense in Norway, as you don't pay a single dime in tax for it (Not even VAT), you don't pay congestion charge, you can drive in the bus lane. Also, Norway has rather low utility costs. Makes even more sense in Askim where they live (where I grew up), as we have three large hydropower stations here. In Oslo there's free parking with free charging for EVs, also, Tesla is currently constructing their Supercharger network here. Then there's also the fact it will outrun anything this side of an M5. You get all of this for the price of a generously specced Passat...

My dad considers taking it to an AM-car (it's as American as anything there...) meeting after it arrives, just to Troll them... :p

The bus lane thing is gonna be gone pretty soon. They're not far from blocking the busses already.
 
You people take me way to seriously :rolleyes:
 
Can't see anything wrong with encouraging people to buy an EV for their commuter car... :dunno:

By the end of this year there will be no less than two Tesla Model S in my family.

Hate to run out of juice when its -20c

Hard to imagine battery life being great in a Norwegian winter.
 
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Hate to run out of juice when its -20c

Hard to imagine battery life being great in a Norwegian winter.

To use one electric drive vehicle: The Volt's claimed range on battery (without lighting off the motor) under normal conditions is 38 miles. It loses 13 miles under winter conditions, per GM. And it gets worse the lower the temp goes; so, if you have a 30 mile commute, yeah, you're not getting there on a really cold winter day without lighting up the gas engine. Be interesting to see what happens in the Norwegian winter with the all-battery Tesla.
 
To use one electric drive vehicle: The Volt's claimed range on battery (without lighting off the motor) under normal conditions is 38 miles. It loses 13 miles under winter conditions, per GM. And it gets worse the lower the temp goes; so, if you have a 30 mile commute, yeah, you're not getting there on a really cold winter day without lighting up the gas engine. Be interesting to see what happens in the Norwegian winter with the all-battery Tesla.

According to testing done at Argonne National Laboratory, the range on a Nissan Leaf is reduced by 20~50% in 20?F (-7?C) weather (scroll to slide 27). The huge loss in range isn't due to decreased efficiency of the battery, but rather the use of a 5 kW heating element to warm the cabin (no waste heat from an ICE to scavenge). The test was done before Nissan swapped the resistive heating element for a heat pump design, so the loss in range is probably 10~25% at that temperature. Less, but still significant. A little googling points to the Model S scavenging waste heat from the battery's inverter, so its loss due to cold weather is potentially even less (but still not zero, since said googling also implied that there isn't that much heat to scavenge, so -20?C would still require electric heating).
 
Yeah, that's kind of the point - you rather do have to provide heat to the cabin or at least the operator or they freeze to death. :p

So, you're sitting there, you've been stuck in traffic in a rural Northern area in your electric car in "The Worst Blizzard This Decade" (somehow every year's storm getting that sobriquet), you're 10 miles from a recharge point and your range number is steadily dropping past 9 - you now have to choose between maybe getting to the charge point but freezing or staying warm but running out of electrons. And it's not like someone can come along and drop off enough electrons in a can (the size of a 2.5 gallon gas can) to be significant, either. :p
 
And it's not like someone can come along and drop off enough electrons in a can (the size of a 2.5 gallon gas can) to be significant, either. :p

Funny you should mention that. A 2.5 gallon li-ion battery holds 6-7.5 kW-hr of juice. Enough to go 10-15 miles in -20?F weather. :tease:
 
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Hate to run out of juice when its -20c

Hard to imagine battery life being great in a Norwegian winter.
One of the Norwegian motoring magazines tried it last winter. The reduction of range due to typical cold Norwegian winter weather was not really bad. They drove it from Oslo to one of the ski resorts (about 300 km) with a very heavy right foot, loaded it up with a lot of shit, put the heater on max and the stereo on full tilt and taped over the range meter. Most of the road from Oslo to Geilo (the ski resort in question) runs through valleys that get ridiculously cold during the winter (between -10c and -30c) The Model S did that with no problems, it had about 10% left of it's charge when they reached the destination. To most of the Anti-EV-trolls's despair they killed a few myths there... They car they tested was a US-spec demo vehicle, the cars they deliver in Norway differs slightly in spec and is better suited to cold weather. At least that's what Tesla guarantees, which is a dangerous thing to do in Norway if you can't back it up, Norwegian consumer law is extremely consumer friendly.

Basically Tesla has sold a huge amount of Model S in Norway, I see several of them every day, and they increase significantly in number every month. Deliveries of these cars began in August this year. If you order one now, you might get one in the spring, if you are lucky...
 
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I really like the Model S. Shame I can't afford one. With an electric engine with a single moving part and no transmission, it's hard to imagine a more reliable car. Assuming the electrical systems are all well sorted and insulated.
 
One of the Norwegian motoring magazines tried it last winter. The reduction of range due to typical cold Norwegian winter weather was not really bad. They drove it from Oslo to one of the ski resorts (about 300 km) with a very heavy right foot, loaded it up with a lot of shit, put the heater on max and the stereo on full tilt and taped over the range meter. Most of the road from Oslo to Geilo (the ski resort in question) runs through valleys that get ridiculously cold during the winter (between -10c and -30c) The Model S did that with no problems, it had about 10% left of it's charge when they reached the destination. To most of the Anti-EV-trolls's despair they killed a few myths there... They car they tested was a US-spec demo vehicle, the cars they deliver in Norway differs slightly in spec and is better suited to cold weather. At least that's what Tesla guarantees, which is a dangerous thing to do in Norway if you can't back it up, Norwegian consumer law is extremely consumer friendly.

Basically Tesla has sold a huge amount of Model S in Norway, I see several of them every day, and they increase significantly in number every month. Deliveries of these cars began in August this year. If you order one now, you might get one in the spring, if you are lucky...

...and most of them probably get it for epeen factors and being able to drive in the buslane. I wonder what the outrage will be like once they can't drive there any longer... ;)
 
Maybe I'm an outlier in this, but at 20F I'll barely have the heat on, if at all.
 
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