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US ex-gang boss denied clemency


Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2005
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

How do you feel about this?

I'm totally against the death penalty. In all cases, I don't think a person should be executed.

But, take that arguement out of the equation for a moment here. This is a man who murdered four people and hasn't even shown remorse to them. More importantly, he started a savage gang culture that has spread as far as Toronto. We have Blood and Crip sets shooting at each other every day. Normally I'd defend a person who's going to get executed, and I still feel it's wrong, but I honestly can't say I feel any compassion towards this man. It's more, I don't really care, rather than, yes, I want him to die.
Crap...my browser crashed and I lost what I wrote....i'm gonna rush through this now...

He hasn't shown remorse because he maintains his innocence. He has shown remorse for creating the crips and other criminal behavior. For some 10 years he has been preaching an alternative to gangs and apparently he even received a letter of commendation from Bush (I just read that here and found it interesting....http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4523098.stm)

The prison system should have 2 goals. To punish and to rehabilitate.

Considering his work over the last decade, I ask. Can this individual do more good alive or dead?
The prison system has four reasons:

1. Rehabilitation
2. Incapadibility
3. Deterrance
4. Retribution

This is a tough situation and I could go either way. If I were in the governor's position, I dont know what I would do. Just remember that this guy has appealed the California courts, federal district courts, the Supreme Court, the governor of California, and the President... and not to mention the original trial... all find him guilty. Bottom line is that we dont know all the details and dont have the forensic evidence placed in front of us. It is just too tough of a decision, at least for me.
I don't know enough about his case to make a judgement, but it will be interesting to see the response from the reactionary black community.
I'm not questioning his guilt. Even if he didn't kill these people specifically, maybe he killed other people...I don't know. What i'm looking at is whether he has changed, and from what I understand...he has. I don't think he should be released from prison (not now anyway)....just that if he truly has been rehabilitated, maybe he can better serve the community alive than dead.

And yes, I am against the death penalty (for a variety of reasons).
We aren't talking about letting this guy go free, just to not kill him and let him keep living. Then again, that's more than his supposed victims got.

It's a hard one. I'm happy to not be Arnold.
zenkidori said:
Interesting to note that it's more expensive to put someone to death than to keep them in prison for life.
Keep in mind that the actual death contributes to a very small percentage of the actual costs. Because you are garaunteed around 5-6 petitions (depending on your state), the costs for legal fees and so on costs a LOT... but the actual death isnt expensive.
I'm fully against the death penalty, no doubt. It's just that in this case, I can't be bothered to defend this man. It's not like he didn't appeal it on all levels. Each and everw court found him guilty. I would hope that the American judiciary system isn't that flawed.

I won't comment on his original trial. If he is really guilty, he has shown no remorse whatever to his victims. Add that to all the courts finding him guilty, two strikes. Add that to the fact that being directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of minorities due to the culture he invented the culture doesn't help. Writing children's stories and talking to gang members isn't going to help. This is an epidemic in most minority based communities, and like I said, it has come all the way here. I just really can't be bothered defending this guy.

One thing I do know, there's a small chance there might be rioting again in LA. This guy has alot of important people backing him in the black community, not to mention rappers and actors. People might take it as a big slap in the face.
The death of a man often leaves a bigger impact than what he left when he was still alive. This might act as a reality check for gang members who think they can get away with their crimes. They tend to live in a fantasy dream world of delusional thought anyways. If they push the limit, they really can get the death penalty. I believe that a person is executed to set an example to the rest of society. Isn't that the original concept of the execution?

I seriously did not know about this man until he popped on the news. If the community really believed he was innocent, why the hell did they wait until the last moment to push this onto the media spotlight??? They should have been relentlessly pushing for his clemency years ago! Such is the nature of human beings . . . I'm pretty sure if he had a concept of honour he would have already expected to be executed regardless of the good he did on death row.

Even if he didn't personally kill those four people, he paved the way for thousands of other deaths resulting from his work as a gang member. If anything is a good reason for a "hanging" then I think this would be it.
Of course dumbass gang members lack the capacity for much rational thought, so it will probably just piss them off, not much of a deterrent.
zenkidori said:
Of course dumbass gang members lack the capacity for much rational thought, so it will probably just piss them off, not much of a deterrent.

LOL, that is very true. :lol:
I bet the black community will once again blame the white people . . . intensifying the already tense relationship.
If the arguement is whether his death is going to have a positive or negative impact, I'd lean more towards the negative side. You're definately not gaining anything by killing him, and you have alot to loose.

But again, can anyone here honestly be bothered to go out and protest with these people for this man? I sure as hell can't. Like I said, I don't want him to die, but from what I've seen happen in my community because of the culture he created, I can't be bothered to defend him.
Re: US ex-gang boss denied clemency

///M said:

How do you feel about this?

I'm totally against the death penalty. In all cases, I don't think a person should be executed.

Stanley "Tookie" Williams is quite probably a murderer, he may perhaps even br guilty of those murders for which he was convicted.

Anyone who signs a death warrant is a murderer.
My stance against the death penalty carries no exceptions. That's primarily why I'm against him being executed. When you add on the positive things he has done, can do, or the negative effect his death may have, that is just more incentive not to execute.

Also...as we all should know, the criminal justice system does have some flaws