US of A Presidential Elections 2012

argatoga

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Er, not quite... to both of you.

He can certainly say "We helped end the conflict in Libya without putting a single soldier on the ground OR spending a single extra cent on it".
Or we helped prolong it as the TNC has refused to negotiate due to the help of the US/NATO bombings.
 

Dogbert

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Or we helped prolong it as the TNC has refused to negotiate due to the help of the US/NATO bombings.
Well, if you want to look at it that way... yes, the conflict would have been over much sooner without NATO help. The rebels would have all been killed and the dictatorial veil of peace would have been restored.
 
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nomix

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True enough. Gadaffi was ruthless in attempting to quell the rebellion.
 

argatoga

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Well, if you want to look at it that way... yes, the conflict would have been over much sooner without NATO help. The rebels would have all been killed and the dictatorial veil of peace would have been restored.
I doubt Gaddafi would have easily crushed the rebels without the bombings. But then again my policy is to offer help in negotiating and not war with people because it feels right. The Cold War showed how doing things that feel good can bite back hard.
 
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nomix

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Yeah. But the revolution in the former Yugoslavia (not the same, but let's pretend) showed that at times, it was right.

You know, Radko Mladic, the military leader of the Bosnian Serbs, said in the aftermath of the peace treaty that if the US had put 10 000 troops on the ground in Bosnia, they could have cut off his logistics and stopped him in his tracks. Not my words, his.

So there is something in it. Something could have been done in Rwanda too, which is even less like Libya. But let's at least keep in mind that yes, there are times when you need to stop someone, even if it entails force. In the case of Libya, I think that was the only right sollution. I tend to think that of Syria too these days, but that's less likely for a number of reasons (lack of a clear oposition to Assad, destabilizing Israel's back yard etc.).
 

argatoga

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The Cold War is littered with good intentions and drenched in the blood their outcomes.
 

Twerp128

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saupload_major_foreign_holders_us_national_debt_mar_2000_dec_2010.png

Perhaps, I'm the only one concerned about the economy? I just want a politician to admit we're in the shitter financially. High unemployment, foreign ownership up nearly thirty percent since 1980, loads of debt, a war to pay off, billionaires that pay the same capital gains as their cleaning ladies, and a Wall Street that does what whatever the fuck it pleases.

I have great faith in the American economy, however right now everyone seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room. It's gonna suck too, there is no easy way out of it. At least in the long term there isn't an easy way.
 

argatoga

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View attachment 4949

Perhaps, I'm the only one concerned about the economy? I just want a politician to admit we're in the shitter financially. High unemployment, foreign ownership up nearly thirty percent since 1980, loads of debt, a war to pay off, billionaires that pay the same capital gains as their cleaning ladies, and a Wall Street that does what whatever the fuck it pleases.

I have great faith in the American economy, however right now everyone seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room. It's gonna suck too, there is no easy way out of it. At least in the long term there isn't an easy way.
So are you a Ron Paul supporter? :p
 

MattD1zzl3

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At least in the long term there isn't an easy way.


Want to go REALLY radical with smaller government? Disband the marine corps and air force, let the army take over the duties of both that are deemed worth keeping. If you really have a "shores of tripoli" boner, let them be a small department of the navy again.
 
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GaryC

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I'm not familiar with the various candidates for 2012, but I really like Ron Paul. His ideas and straightforwardness is pretty good
 

nomix

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View attachment 4949

Perhaps, I'm the only one concerned about the economy? I just want a politician to admit we're in the shitter financially. High unemployment, foreign ownership up nearly thirty percent since 1980, loads of debt, a war to pay off, billionaires that pay the same capital gains as their cleaning ladies, and a Wall Street that does what whatever the fuck it pleases.

I have great faith in the American economy, however right now everyone seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room. It's gonna suck too, there is no easy way out of it. At least in the long term there isn't an easy way.
According to this charming chart, you even owe us 24,9 billion US dollar. We've lent you more money than Mexico. But less that Luxemburg, though.

 

WillDAQ

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We want our 230 billion dollars back, that would knock a quarter off our total debt!
 

nomix

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And we could pay for those fighters we're going to buy from you. Now, that's Keynes in practice! :D
 

Heathrow

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We want our 230 billion dollars back, that would knock a quarter off our total debt!
Good plan, but what is the amount of debt that the UK owes the US.

If the 230 above is not nett debt, the UK may owe more dosh.

:think:
 

alaskarat

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Obama: Stimulus Program to get the economy going.
Results: Shrimp are really going on their new treadmill.

Obama: Get American working again.
Results: Democrats worked on an un-constitutional health care plan.

Obama: Change we can live with.
Results: Mister can you spare some change.

Obama: Hope
Results: I hope I have enough change to buy some physically fit shrimp for dinner.
 

nomix

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Of for crying out loud.. It's not like the economy was back on track while Dubya was in the Oval either..
 

alaskarat

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Well if we are going to blame past presidents the economy was pretty bad when George Washington was in office too.

Let?s face some facts Obama ran for president during a bad economy and made all those people believe that he could fix it. Fact while folks were losing jobs him and the rest of Democrats were hard at work on their pet peeve Health Care. Meanwhile the economy has gotten worse and worse and the unemployment rate is 2 points lower than when he started. 10trillion dollars spent on his not so shovel ready projects (by his own words). He took on the job knowing there was a bad economy and has failed.
 
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argatoga

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Presidents' control over the economy is overrated. They can't change it much. It will tank in a few years due to its own accord.
 
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