US Racial Relations

prizrak

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This has been consistently enough in the news and there is more than enough discussion we could have on the subject, to kick things off this video:
 
Looks like it's still something people rather avoid discussing...
 
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1) This video is just more feel-good politically correct social justice warrior type stuff. As I've mentioned before, there were white slaves in the South (the Irish were called negroes inside-out); there were black slave owners in the South; and there were slaves in Northern states. The reason why slaves were predominantly black had nothing to do with skin color back then and everything to do with the fact that it was African kings and tribal leaders that were willing to sell off their people to Muslim slave traders in the Middle East (cue the usual BS about how I hate Muslims or something along those lines). Can you picture the Europeans doing the same thing? Doubtful. Racism didn't really emerge until the post-war reconstruction era and the rise of the Ku Klux Klan, Jim Crow laws, etc. It continued in force for the next 100 years or so, which, as others have pointed out, was when the Confederate Flag, for example, emerged as a symbol with a new meaning. That century is the darkest period in our history when it comes to racial issues, by far.

Our incarceration system is f*cked up without the need for the racial story; same with the war on drugs. Both are measures to fight crime and both have failed quite miserably. It's not all that surprising that a larger percentage of blacks are incarcerated than whites - just look at the demographics of Baltimore, Detroit, Dorchester in Boston, Oakland in CA, etc. All are poor areas that have large African American populations so the fact that they get arrested more isn't exactly news-worthy. What is worth a discussion is why such poor high-crime areas are predominantly black. I think part of it is culture - trailer-park rednecks (mostly white) are surely going to behave differently than the inner-city project-raised poor (mostly black) simply due to the environment, rather than skin color itself.

The bit about how likely a black infant is to end up in jail can be summed up as follows, imho:


Also, finish high school. There is a massive drop in incarceration and poverty rates between African Americans who finished high school and those that dropped out.

"Failure to use a turn signal or lacking a front license plate" bit. I recently heard a cop say that the best advice he'd ever gotten was to not let the small violations go unnoticed because very often upon closer inspection you can find much, much more serious violations. Just sayin'.

The videos of arrests, tear gas, etc is largely feel-good, as well, without knowing the backstory to the footage. I'll sit back and wait for someone to bring up Trayvon Martin or Mike Brown before addressing this further. Suffice it to say that police militarization and brutality are a nation-wide issue that goes far beyond any racial discussion.

50% poverty rate? Not unless you take into account different countries' different criteria for poverty. The poorest in America are far better off than probably half of the world.

"The system is engineered to push them down and keep them down." Yeah... bullshit. And I'm a prime example of it being bullshit. I wish people would stop blaming all of their life problems on others or on "the system" so much. Those may be valid but on a much smaller scale than what we've witnessed, especially from the millennials.

Towards the end - there's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are. Nothing.

Aaaaand there it is. White straight male privilege. Predictable. And there's the Trayvon Martin mention :lol: Masters of the world economy? That is some Alex Jones quality NWO stuff.

More after work. I'm already running late.
 
Looks like it's still something people rather avoid discussing...

I figured I'd avoid it because LeVeL would end up posting some fucking manifesto. And one of us would challenge it or dismantle it in an equally impressive post ... which he'd end up carefully picking two lines out of to respond to then troll the thread forever after.

We're off to a strong start. :D

But seriously, it's just a fucking complex issue. I don't know where to really start.

I'm a white guy from Kansas who's had some run ins with cops. Suffice it to say I don't have a high opinion of them. I've had some great talks with a few black and Mexican friends about that shit. Common experiences and whatnot. 9 times out of 10, they've had it worse.

Very recently I've had talks with some BLM types who told me, essentially, that my opinion and experiences didn't matter because I'm a white male. And of course, cops treat all us white guys like gods. Right.

Anyway, I definitely get why people are pissed off and protesting. We've got cops killing people, disproportionate numbers of minorities, in painfully suspicious circumstances. And the cops rarely if ever face punishment. That has to change or things are going to get real fucked up here.

But bullshit like BLM protesting Bernie Sanders? Jesus fucking Christ. That's like your buddy missing your text ... so you respond by going over and punching holes in his walls.
 
Lev,

Just saying that Irish were called "white negroes" doesn't make it not racist, it makes it worse. It's true that the African slave trade was certainly helped by Africans but it doesn't mean there was no racism. Just remember Kipling and the "white man's burden". From the get go the Brits thought to be above everyone else and most certainly above those uncivilized African savages that would sell their own people into slavery.

Aside from that many, specifically black people, have been institutionally poor, environment is a very big factor in your development. People who grow up poor are more likely to stay poor not because they don't want to strive to better themselves but because they don't often know how to. Mind you that's not saying that being poor is a sentence or that being from a middle class family guarantees that you will not end up poor but it's all on the odds.

Finally as far as not breaking the law, there is a very well documented punishment disparity between whites and minorities for same crime.
 
From the get go the Brits thought to be above everyone else and most certainly above those uncivilized African savages that would sell their own people into slavery.
That would be racism if the British liked everyone except blacks from Africa. The reality is that, as you said, they thought basically hated everyone: they surely didn't tie the Sepoys to cannons out of respect. Also, guess what - during the height of the British empire and in the early 19th century when slavery flourished in the United States, Africa was unbelievably far behind North America and especially Europe so "uncivilized" isn't exactly an incorrect description, at least by European/American standards. Hell, even today almost all of the African continent is third world countries.


...environment is a very big factor in your development. People who grow up poor are more likely to stay poor not because they don't want to strive to better themselves but because they don't often know how to.
How is this racism?


Here's a question for you - why do Asians in the US have a similar poverty rate to whites? Why don't Asians complain about discrimination? Mind you, right around the time of the Civil War, the Chinese were the ones building the First Transcontinental Railroad. Keep in mind also, that during WWII the Japanese were discriminated against by FDR... as in forced into internment camps. Yet Asian children have very high high school graduation rates, for example. Why is that?

Hell, why are Jews largely successful? Having faced discrimination for millennia, which continues to this very day with random acts of antisemitism via defaced synagogues and cries of "zomg the Jews control Wall Street!". Yet Jews are successful. Asians are successful. But this has nothing to do with a family-oriented culture that values education, amirite?
 
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How is this racism?
I'm not saying it's racism, but it adds to the issue in general.

Here's a question for you - why do Asians in the US have a similar poverty rate to whites? Why don't Asians complain about discrimination? Mind you, right around the time of the Civil War, the Chinese were the ones building the First Transcontinental Railroad. Keep in mind also, that during WWII the Japanese were discriminated against by FDR... as in forced into internment camps. Yet Asian children have very high high school graduation rates, for example. Why is that?

Hell, why are Jews largely successful? Having faced discrimination for millennia, which continues to this very day with random acts of antisemitism via defaced synagogues and cries of "zomg the Jews control Wall Street!". Yet Jews are successful. Asians are successful.
You more or less answered that with the below.
But this has nothing to do with a family-oriented culture that values education, amirite?
To add to it more is Asians, Jews and even the Irish all came willingly, they set up semi-private communities where they were able to thrive regardless of the "outside" perception of them, same for Russians for example. You go to Little Odessa, China town, Borough park and you see it, businesses, schools, restaurants, etc... all owned by the members of the community.

That's not a luxury that slaves had, for centuries they were completely disconnected from their culture and origins, how do you expect to get a community out of that?

In the same vein though, why is there no massive sentencing disparity against the Asians or Jews?

Mind you I'm not saying that there is no personal responsibility here and that all the woes are from white people being racist but you can't say that there is no problem.

P.S. The jews do control Wall Street, that part is true.
 
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You more or less answered that with the below.
Yes, I know :p


To add to it more is Asians, Jews and even the Irish all came willingly, they set up semi-private communities where they were able to thrive regardless of the "outside" perception of them, same for Russians for example. You go to Little Odessa, China town, Borough park and you see it, businesses, schools, restaurants, etc... all owned by the members of the community.

That's not a luxury that slaves had, for centuries they were completely disconnected from their culture and origins, how do you expect to get a community out of that?
Slaves were brought here over 150 years ago. What does that have to do with 2015? Also, African Americans absolutely have their own communities - Bronx in NY and Dorchester in Boston come to mind right away.


In the same vein though, why is there no massive sentencing disparity against the Asians or Jews?
Could it be because Asians have some of the highest high-school graduation rates and blacks the lowest? Or maybe because Asians have the lowest rate of single-parent households and blacks and highest?


Another group came to mind since my last post actually - Indians. Dark skin, often thick accents, community-centered and somewhat exclusive enclaves... Yet they don't complain about discrimination and racism, at least not nearly as much as #blacklivesmatter.
 
Slaves were brought here over 150 years ago. What does that have to do with 2015? Also, African Americans absolutely have their own communities - Bronx in NY and Dorchester in Boston come to mind right away.
History has a lot of bearing on the present, example the Judeo-Christian idea of monogamy. Black communities by and large are low income housing not in the same vein as say Chinatown in NY.

accents, community-centered and somewhat exclusive enclaves... Yet they don't complain about discrimination and racism, at least not nearly as much as #blacklivesmatter.
Same thing as all other immigrants really.

This is the main difference really, willful immigration vs forced relocation.

Could it be because Asians have some of the highest high-school graduation rates and blacks the lowest? Or maybe because Asians have the lowest rate of single-parent households and blacks and highest?
What does that have to do with sentencing disparity? Maybe you think I mean something different, but this is what I'm saying, if you are caught smoking weed you get say a fine, black person with same arrest history and same amount of weed gets a year in prison. Same exact crime, same exact circumstances, different outcome.
 
As I'm sure you've all heard, two journalists, Alison Parker and Adam Ward, were shot on live television by a former colleague.

The victims, RIP:
roanoke-virginia-shooting-victims.jpg


And the shooter:
Pic-of-Vester-Lee-Flanagan-aka-Bryce-Williams.png


The shooter was a basket case who saw basically everything as racist. He allegedly once proclaimed that someone eating watermelon for lunch was racist. Has Obama made the usual speech about racially-motivated crime? Nope. Did Obama attack gun owners? Yup. Can't made this up! #alllivesmatter

In a real world, we would be focusing on crime and the social, economic, and cultural reasons behind it.
 
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In a real world, we would be focusing on crime and the social, economic, and cultural reasons behind it.
Oh yeah sure. And let's completely ignore how easy it is for a fucking lunatic like that to get guns. Lets just pretend that totally unrelated to a fucking shooting.
 
Did people know he was "a fucking lunatic" before he shot everybody and everyone knew he would shoot others? Or is it now that this is over with, that he's now "a fucking lunatic"?
 
The problem with racism in the USA is not that it's still there. Only a complete and utter moron would deny it's not there anymore.

The very current problem is that a raving maniac like Donald Trump is working hard on making it socially accepted again. The high number of people who seem to agree with him, is really worrying. The polls seem to suggest there is still a very large portion of Republican voters who silently think and feel racist but so far were afraid to express themselves in that way. Trump tears down inhibitions with his agitation. Consequences of that? Hard to say. But Trump's playing with fire and that is always very dangerous.

Donald Trump is paving the road for racists to come forward, out of hiding. He's not a funny or eccentric guy, he's a very dangerous demagogue and it seems like he's being hugely underestimated by the enlightened part of the population in the way he's able to re-activate racism and and amplify xenophonia in the USA.

We Germans are a bit bewildered at what is currently happening there, mainly because we had our very own experience with a raving demagogue and agitator in the past and he too was not taken serious and looked down upon by the intellectuals at first...

There is damage being created right now that will take more than just a few years to fix again. Hate, fear, racism, angry mobs are extremely hard to fight, once they're out of Pandora's box. This is only the beginning...
 
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Oh yeah sure. And let's completely ignore how easy it is for a fucking lunatic like that to get guns. Lets just pretend that totally unrelated to a fucking shooting.

Tiggy, lets keep it to race here please, lunatics being able to get guns is outside of any kind of race issues this country has.
The shooter was a basket case who saw basically everything as racist. He allegedly once proclaimed that someone eating watermelon for lunch was racist. Has Obama made the usual speech about racially-motivated crime? Nope. Did Obama attack gun owners? Yup. Can't made this up! #alllivesmatter
Not sure if you could say this was racially motivated, this dude's obviously got some mental issues.

I will comment on #alllivesmatter though, the thing that many people don't seem to grasp is that it's not it's not [only] black lives matter but rather black lives matter [too], the implication (in []) is the main distinction here. The point here is to raise awareness, news media is useless as it is profit driven and minorities don't sell, so this is another way of getting the message out there. But the bottom line is that yes all lives matter but not all are given the same attention.
 

To be fair this article doesn't mention anything about the crime rates among the races, obviously criminals would be more likely to get killed by police than law abiding citizens, and if certain groups are more likely to be criminals it would explain the disparity. Of course there is plenty of discussion to be had around preventative and community policing in at risk neighborhoods.
 
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