US to require automatic emergency braking systems on new cars.

Blind_Io

Blind_Io

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„Why do cars cost so much now? They must be price gouging!“
 
narf said:
Good. I'd still have my Z4 if this was the default earlier.
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My problem is the systems are pretty intrusive. I was driving my friend's Ranger and it freaked out and stabbed the brakes when someone pulled up to a driveway to make a right onto the road I was on. The other problem is cost, at least in the US there are a lot of places you can't get around without a car and this will price many of the working poor out of the car market in coming years - both for purchase and repairs of used cars when these complex systems and sensors begin to fail or get broken.
 
I've had my passat beep at me a couple times over the about 20 months I've owned it. Once because I actually reacted slowly and needed a wakeup call. The other times have been misfires, like a car in front of me slowing down and taking a corner or turning into a driveway, and me leaving a tight margin by not slowing down. Never has it actually hit the brakes for me.

edit: but moving/reversing a trailer without plugging it in to the car (as you do when you're on private property and can't be bothered to mess with the cable) means endless panic stops and loud beeps because it sees the trailer and thinks it's the Boogeyman.
 
Blind_Io said:
My problem is the systems are pretty intrusive. I was driving my friend's Ranger and it freaked out and stabbed the brakes when someone pulled up to a driveway to make a right onto the road I was on. The other problem is cost, at least in the US there are a lot of places you can't get around without a car and this will price many of the working poor out of the car market in coming years - both for purchase and repairs of used cars when these complex systems and sensors begin to fail or get broken.
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Having a car crash into you is more intrusive. I'm carless as we speak because of no AEB, not the inverse.
 
No, you're carless because some idiot wasn't paying attention.

It's one thing to wish for vehicles to be safer. It's another thing entirely to defer personal responsibility to some or other driver aid because it is or isn't there. It's not like driver aids will make us better drivers. They rather more succeed in making drivers worse for spatial awareness and more prone to distractions.
 
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I find it interesting when people are against driver aids.

Boosted cooled disc brakes, modern tires, shock absorbers and chassis technology in general was also modern technology at some point. It allows you to go around bends while sipping coffee, at speeds that a Ford Anglia wouldn't have been able to handle. These are also driver aids.
 
Perc said:
I find it interesting when people are against driver aids.

Boosted cooled disc brakes, modern tires, shock absorbers and chassis technology in general was also modern technology at some point. It allows you to go around bends while sipping coffee, at speeds that a Ford Anglia wouldn't have been able to handle. These are also driver aids.
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You are right, but there’s also the growing complaint of cars being too expensive. But the backup camera was standardized in 2019 in the US so I guess this is the next step? Why parking sensors didn’t come to standard before the camera though, I don’t know.
 
Perc said:
I find it interesting when people are against driver aids.

Boosted cooled disc brakes, modern tires, shock absorbers and chassis technology in general was also modern technology at some point. It allows you to go around bends while sipping coffee, at speeds that a Ford Anglia wouldn't have been able to handle. These are also driver aids.
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I think there's a distinction to be made here:
Better brakes, tires, suspension and chassis allow you to drive faster and give you a safety margin, but they do not allow you to drive paying less attention. They don't "drive for you", to use an oversimplification, you still need to be in control of the car and pay attention to what you are doing. ABS, traction control and stability control are other examples, and I'd even say automatic transmissions are in this category, as much as I prefer manual transmissions,
Now, lane assist, automatic braking, self-driving, etc. are a safety net that allows you to fiddle with your phone while driving. You can drive while being less attentive. I don't think they are the same thing.
 
"stupid beeping POS is on the fritz again!!!" :bangin:
eizbaer said:
hm... that's a nice point there, sure. but does an emergency brake assist really fall into that category?
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That's a broader discussion that goes beyond the examples that @Perc mentioned.
I am undecided, but the previous messages are good points both for and against it.
 
Perc said:
I find it interesting when people are against driver aids.

Boosted cooled disc brakes, modern tires, shock absorbers and chassis technology in general was also modern technology at some point. It allows you to go around bends while sipping coffee, at speeds that a Ford Anglia wouldn't have been able to handle. These are also driver aids.
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The difference there is who is in control. Brakes, suspension, tires - all do what I want them to do. Lane assist and automatic braking override the driver.

I've driven with auto braking and lane keeping, the systems get confused and will brake or swerve suddenly in certain conditions.
 
Blind_Io said:
I've driven with auto braking and lane keeping, the systems get confused and will brake or swerve suddenly in certain conditions.
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I'm not advocating for bad implementations of emergency braking - if those systems sucked then they should get improved. Development cost for the improvement will be spread over literally millions of cars now that they're mandatory, so hardly any cost per car added to make them work.

The emergency brake thing I've had in the 2er beeped dozens of times over 3.3 years, but only actually touched the brakes twice. In both situations I was planning to swerve left with a clear view that there was space, vehicle in front was slowing down to turn right with no need to pull left first (one car, one motorbike, no truck or anything that needs extra space to turn).
If there wasn't space to swerve there would indeed have been a good likelihood of a problem, same if I wasn't paying attention - so I don't blame the system for touching the brakes there.
No idea how it would have been in the Z4, didn't get to test that because of no AEB in the Peugeot that totaled my Z4.
 
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