Utah Legislator proposes allowing concealed firearms without a license

GRtak

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The reason is training. You can't train a mass conscript army that well in the time available during a large war like WW2, and then the training becomes less efficient in making people kill.

It's quite simply a question of human psychology. What the modern armed forces do, is, in effect, a small form of brain washing. It's efficiant, too.

That is part of the reason we have guns. Having guns lets one learn the basics of using them and translates over to other weapons. During WW2 the English had to teach all of the troops how to use a gun because nobody has them and less time to teach other things.
 

nomix

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The British managed pretty well, actually. In that case, hunting should be a requirement. It'll teach you how to stalk a target (animals even smell you), it teaches you how to move efficiently through terrain, how to use a rifle efficiantly in a sort of real life situation (except of course, the targets aren't human, and they don't shoot back).

But being a good marksman hasn't got anything to do with killing, and that's what I'm talking about.
 
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GRtak

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Your right, markmenship can be taught, much like hate and that makes killing easier. Although, as a species, humans are quite effective at killing and it doesn't take much for us to get over the limitations most try to say they would have against killing.
 

nomix

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It's obviously taken a lot. When you have soliders standing literally face to face to other soldiers, and is still not fireing on them, it's obvious that you'll have trouble doing it in a domestic situation.
 

Blind_Io

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Speak for yourself.

I would much rather be alive to regret killing someone who was intent on doing me harm than dead or seriously wounded.
 

nomix

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Have you killed someone? I know I haven't, and while I hope I'd be able to if circumstances demanded, I don't know that I could. And if you think you know, you're fooling yourself.
 

LeVeL

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It is amazing what one will do to survive.
This. I'm certainly not a violent person but if you're in a situation where its you or the other guy, chances are your survival instinct will kick in. Of course you can never know with 100% certainly until you are find yourself in said situation, but I like to think that I would do whatever it takes to keep myself and my loved ones out of harm's way.
 

nomix

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So would I. But having read what I've read from people who've actually spent some time researching the issue, I got less sure.
 

Dogbert

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That is part of the reason we have guns. Having guns lets one learn the basics of using them and translates over to other weapons. During WW2 the English had to teach all of the troops how to use a gun because nobody has them and less time to teach other things.
I don't see that as having changed much. The US armed forces still very much "teaches" you how to use a gun properly, despite a large portion of people in the US owning guns.
 

nomix

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That is why paranoid people practice.
Killing? No, very few people practice killing.

Dogbert, it does mean that if you draft half of America and give each of them a pistol to fight of the ruskies, most will know how to hit beer bottles at 16 meters.
 

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Dogbert, it does mean that if you draft half of America and give each of them a pistol to fight of the ruskies, most will know how to hit beer bottles at 16 meters.
Which the Army doesn't give two shits about, and rightfully so.

They don't even ask you during basic training (or if they do, they don't really care) what your previous experience is, because it doesn't matter. Everyone is trained exactly the same way; as if they've never seen a gun in their lives.

Of course, prior experience can help you during qualification, which opens up marksman jobs.
 

nomix

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It will help you. But I'm sure the army finds a lot of faults with experienced gun owners technique.
 

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I don't see that as having changed much. The US armed forces still very much "teaches" you how to use a gun properly, despite a large portion of people in the US owning guns.
My brother was a very proficient shooter before he became and infantry officer, while he we trained by the army in shooting, his experience prior to service enabled him to qualify as Expert Infantryman on his first try. While the military does put everyone through rifle training, some people are better at it due to prior experience.
 

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My brother was a very proficient shooter before he became and infantry officer, while he we trained by the army in shooting, his experience prior to service enabled him to qualify as Expert Infantryman on his first try. While the military does put everyone through rifle training, some people are better at it due to prior experience.
Of course, prior experience can help you during qualification, which opens up marksman jobs.
:)
 

Blind_Io

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"Marksmanship jobs" like being an Army infantryman.
 

Cobol74

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Just saw a program on the US marine snipers - it seems the US marines and the British Army share an obsession for accurate long range rifle fire. Then they train the very best for sniper duties. There was a bit on Belleau wood battle in WWI - very impressive. The French were asking what the point was of the long range accurate fire - that battle showed them.
 
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