VAG boss ' benchmarking' the new Hyundai i30

Spectre

The Deported
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
36,867
Location
Dallas, Texas
Car(s)
00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
*sigh* you still don't get it?

D-Fence said the badge is German, you say the car is not built in Germany. Those two things are unrelated. That's all I was pointing out.

*sigh* you still have reading comprehension fail?

I was responding specifically to D-Fence's comment about cars selling "for a price where you can't build a motorcycle for in Germany?" - namely that most of the cars VW is selling here aren't built in Germany, but Mexico and the US.

D-Fence got it. Even rickhamilton got it, yet you didn't.
 

SchumacherM

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
3,630
Location
Slovenia
Car(s)
Fiat Stilo 1.8 16V
Uhuhu, ze Germans are not pleased. :james:
 

rickhamilton620

has a fetish for terrible cars
DONOR
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
16,938
Location
Yoe, PA
Car(s)
2012 Kia Forte EX
Not to further derail the thread, but CR ratings show that around the middle of the MK5 jetta/golf lifecycle, they managed to get reliability relatively under control for what I'd argue is their bread and butter car line here in the US. They're also making improvements to how things are laid out in the cabin (for example: during the MK5's run, they replaced the recline twist knob with a power adjustment, then wen't with a traditional lever) to improve JD Power IQS scores (remember, a person complaining about brake dust due to high performance brakes has a negative impact on the score for a model, same goes for things like seat adjustments) and holding the line on price.

Now they've got to show the US public they've changed for the better. Spectre's right, us American's are quite the fickle sort...it took Hyundai and Kia nearly a decade or more to get to where they are now in the US public's eyes....and there's still plenty of buyers who would choose a Toyota or Honda product over them due to brand image/perceived quality.

The advent of a super long warranty and care program was the main reason why Hyundai and Kia have gotten to where they are here. Maybe it's time VW did the same...if they don't think they could do it for the more high tech models like Touareg or Eos, then don't but at least for the bread and butter cars like Golf/Jetta, Routan, and Passat.

Having a long warranty to many people says that a company is willing to put their money where their mouth is, regardless of whether the warranty is easy to use or not (some say that it can be tricky to get Kia/Hyundai to do warranty work...My parents had no issue with it on their Sportage (hood latch was over lubricated, leaking grease onto the front facia on warm days...fixed w/out drama) but who knows) in real life.

They already offer carefree maintenance, so a warranty...say 10 years/100K on the powertrain/powertrain related electrics....would give hesitant buyers more confidence.
 

katwalk

Forum Addict
Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
10,342
Car(s)
2003 VW Beetle, 2017 Abarth Fiat 500c
They already offer carefree maintenance, so a warranty...say 10 years/100K on the powertrain/powertrain related electrics....would give hesitant buyers more confidence.
This. I would be hesitant to buy say, a fiat 500 because of the shortest warranty I found of all the cars I looked at + built in the PT Cruiser plant after mom's but I would be significantly less reluctant to buy another Beetle. Why? Not because of quality, I am betting the extra computery bits added in the last 8 years make them less reliable than mine. No, because my VW dealer likes to say "hey your warranty is up but we will cover that anyway". It is why my car is still outside and mom's got traded in two years ago.
 

Spectre

The Deported
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
36,867
Location
Dallas, Texas
Car(s)
00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
This. I would be hesitant to buy say, a fiat 500 because of the shortest warranty I found of all the cars I looked at + built in the PT Cruiser plant after mom's but I would be significantly less reluctant to buy another Beetle. Why? Not because of quality, I am betting the extra computery bits added in the last 8 years make them less reliable than mine. No, because my VW dealer likes to say "hey your warranty is up but we will cover that anyway". It is why my car is still outside and mom's got traded in two years ago.

You have one of the very, very few good VW dealers. Nationwide, VW dealers have such a (deserved) bad reputation that some are compelled to run large ads advertising that they are 'female friendly'. No kidding.
 

GRtak

Forum Addict
Joined
Sep 6, 2008
Messages
24,070
Location
Michigan USA
By the way, the question isn't really "will they take them apart" but "will they actually learn anything or change what they're doing?" GM, Ford and Chrysler used to routinely buy and take apart each others' models as well as those from the imports. We already know what they did with most of the info they gained - a big fat zilch in most cases.

Will VW learn and adapt, or will it be business as usual? We'll see.


GM still does on a regular basis. Their attitude was not always effective though. It wasn't always: "what can/should we learn from this.", that is not so much the case anymore. Now if they woud only use some of that information effectively.
 

Cobol74

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
17,507
Location
The banana republic of Ukania
Car(s)
Honda Accord 2.2 i-Dtec Sport Estate.Hyundai Ix20
There is something wrong with VW dealer networks - the banana republic of Ukania's (in my experience) are gob shite, I was ready to flash the cash for a Golf plus possibly and the salesman lost my vote and that was not the only dealership that this happened with. I have heard from people who own VWs that they go to Somerset (From Hampshire across Wiltshire for one) because they found a dealer that they trust but do not trust the ones nearby.

I and the Mrs went to a Hyundai dealer when we were looking for a replacement car recently (I got an old Honda Accord in the end) and I have to say their complete package and the quality of the cars were a real surprise - a brilliant proposition if buying privately (i.e. not a company car) and new.

I like the i10, IX35 and the i30.
 

Hbriz

Ballroom Blitz
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
5,649
Location
Wollongong, Australia
Car(s)
'07 Megane dCi
The anecdotal evidence of VW's customer service I've heard is poor, too. Such as a friend of my mother's whose Golf diesel (company car) was returned after a service without any fluids in it, causing the engine to pretty much blow up. The dealership initially wouldn't accept responsibility for failing to fill it with oil after draining it during a service, and it was an incredibly difficult process to speak to someone in management. This is probably a rare case but it is certainly extreme.

VWs are very popular here, and continue to gain popularity, so they must be doing something right. The biggest obstacle is the servicing costs, and people know that a VAG car will be expensive to service. Some people are happy to live with this, others are not.

My dad always talks about his friend whose Golf was so expensive to fix that he sold it and bought a Corolla and couldn't be happier. Since this man actually thinks a Corolla is an exceptional car, I do not trust his opinion with anything.
 

TC

aka TomCat
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
11,433
Oh how I love this rant about VW US quality <3
It's no joke around here. I love a lot of VAG products and was seriously considering a GTi for my last car. But the fact is, I've heard more horror stories about VW's here than all other brands combined.
 

Momentum57

worships the 2010 Prius like a god
DONOR
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
4,334
Location
Denver, CO
Car(s)
It's A HONDA! Clarity Plug In Electric
You have one of the very, very few good VW dealers. Nationwide, VW dealers have such a (deserved) bad reputation that some are compelled to run large ads advertising that they are 'female friendly'. No kidding.

Back when I owned Veedub's I would hate having to go to the dealership even for parts. VW gives this officious F U to their customers and expect people to be happy about it. Best you can hope for at a VW Stealership is that you get a chance to fart in the demo car.
 

jack_christie

Forum Addict
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
7,795
Winterkorn is a bit of a tool for putting on a show like that. Why would he do that in public?

Wonderful behind the scenes video though.
 
Last edited:

Dino

aka Dins
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
1,838
Location
Zurich
Car(s)
Porsche Boxster S / Audi A4 Avant
BISHOFF!
HARALD!
Somebody is gonna order some beer, soon.
 

Dr_Grip

Made from concentrate
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
14,969
Location
HEL
Car(s)
79 Opel Kadett|72 Ford Country Sedan|92 Volvo 945
Winterkorn is a bit of a tool for putting on a show like that. Why would he do that in public?
Quite simple: Because it gives him a few weeks advantage compared to only getting a hands-on experience once the first cars are delivered to the first customers (which probably include VAG, GM Europe and Ford Europe).
 

ArosaMike

Resident Kart Racer
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
883
Location
Leamington Spa
Car(s)
Mk5 VW Golf GTI, Aston Martin Vantage GT4 Race Car
The product itself seems to be pretty poor in general - even VW fans in VW forums admit that all US market VWs, including the German-built ones aren't all that reliable. Remember the Passat CC (made in Germany and only in Germany) and the clearly crappily designed bolts holding the front subframe in? Audi bolt on top, Passat CC bolt on bottom:

101.jpg

I'm interested to know why you believe that's a poorly designed bolt?! It's actually rather trick and what you would like to do generally (as an engineer) if someone allowed you to spend silly money designing a bespoke bolt.
 

Spectre

The Deported
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
36,867
Location
Dallas, Texas
Car(s)
00 4Runner | 02 919 | 87 XJ6 | 86 CB700SC
I'm interested to know why you believe that's a poorly designed bolt?! It's actually rather trick and what you would like to do generally (as an engineer) if someone allowed you to spend silly money designing a bespoke bolt.

I know it's a poorly designed bolt because it allows the entire front subframe to move around with all the obvious bad consequences that entails and the fix is to install the Audi one.
 

jasonof2000

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2008
Messages
1,936
Location
Delmarva Peninsula
Car(s)
2013 Lincoln MKT, 2002 Miata SE, 2012 Honda NC700
getting the (sorry) idiots without any knowledge of cars who just want an "European luxury car" (Jetta) for their high school graduation....we will see.

My wife has a friend who wants to replace her old Celica and asked me for advice since I enjoy cars I obviously must know everything there is to know about them. :blink:
This woman is fairly well educated, has a freaking awesome job with the city of Jacksonville Florida but is really ditzy in many ways, annoying when she thinks she is being funny and at sums up all the worst atributes of a product fanboy. In short I don't like her but she is a friend of my wife who I am rather fond of, so I tolerate her.
The only two things she said she wanted was that the car wasn't "American" and that it was "fun". I tried to explain that just about everyone had a plant in the US and Mexico and she didn't care. I also assumed by "fun" she meant cute and not good handling or RWD.
I suggested the Fiat 500, Mini -S, Honda CR-Z (reasonably fun to drive, very sharp looking and you can get them at a steep discount in the US, plus since she is a liberal it has hybrid cred), Mazda 2, Miata and the upcoming Beetle.
Instead of looking at any of them (and dismissing the Mazda 2 and Miata right off the bat for some reason) she instead fell in love with the freaking Jetta. Even my wife knows Jetta's are crap and she has been trying to talk her out of it, hell even the VW salesman tried to talk her out of it (he told her to wait for the Beetle instead since he thought that suited her personality better).
 

MacGuffin

Forum Addict
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
8,322
Location
Wilhelmshaven, Germany
Car(s)
'17 Ford Mustang GT Fastback
By the way: Is there any data yet about how the U.S. Passat is selling there?
 
Top