Volkswagen Golf by Dahlback Racing (2.1 liter I5, 600-900hp)

ArosaMike

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Karoug said:
Doyou really care what the paint on mah gylf is? ok then.. it's Volvo lazer blue.. and as far as the engine goes it's a Turbo charged Vr6 3,2l

What turbo you running? Which company did you get the parts off? Have you had the 4wd conversion done?

I find it a bit confusing why you would respray your car in a colour that looks almost identical to one of the factory colours:

Volvo Lazer Blue:
360623_14_full.jpg


VW Deep Blue Pearl Effect:
VW_Golf_R32_xx.jpg
 

Karoug

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http://www.eiptuning.com Of course it's 4x4 (haldex) tried fwd for a week and almost crashed it whenever there was a corner... I think Volvos lazer blue looks better and it was WAY cheaper.. BTW arent we kinda of topic here?
 

bone

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oh, he has to prove he has the car he sais, and he wants to go back on topic :lol:

still don't beleive you have that car, and if i were to have it, i sure would place that as avatar instead of that skyline

and like you don't have any pics from before the "repaint"
 

ArosaMike

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Karoug said:
http://www.eiptuning.com Of course it's 4x4 (haldex) tried fwd for a week and almost crashed it whenever there was a corner... I think Volvos lazer blue looks better and it was WAY cheaper.. BTW arent we kinda of topic here?

Oh dear, oh dear. :whistle: Caught you out on that one didn't I! (Mwa ha ha ha :evil: :p). Like putty in my hands.

I figured you'd probably do better research tbh, but I'm guessing you're probably in the age range 14-17 so I don't blame you.

As I said....when it comes to VWs I know my stuff. I've lusted after an R32 for a long long time and came fairly close to getting one not that long ago. I therefore have the original sales brochures and also am well aware of the specifications of the Europe and US R32s (it wasn't originally going to be sold there). However....and this is a big HOWEVER....(are you ready).

The only Golfs EVER made with a 3.2l VR6 (that means 15deg V angle btw ;)) have been the Mk4 R32 and the Mk5 R32. Now considering BOTH of these have the haldex 4WD system fitted AS STANDARD there is NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE RUN IT IN FWD "For a week"

I think this is for you :oops: :roll:

Please prove me wrong....but realise that if you keep digging, you won't get to the other side! You'll just get burnt in the HOT HOT Ma-g-maaa.
 

ArosaMike

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Oh...I'm also confused why you went to a North American based tuner when there is a perfectly good (if not better) tuner in Europe called HGP. They use twin instead of one laggy turbo to produce the power and as far as I'm aware most people use the HGP kit in Europe because it's made here!

I guess I don't blame you though. The most prolific R32 turbo video on the net is the EIP one ;)
 

Ianspeed

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:shock: Fake people suck. :thumbsdown: Talking about paint costs after turbo charging and 4wd coverting a custom 3.2l fwd golf seems... well, a bit odd. :roll: Sigh...

ArosaMike: nice quote! Its from the F1 coverage this year yeah? I remeber hearing that and having to replay it just to understand... quite a murryism. :lol:
 

bone

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ArosaMike said:
The only Golfs EVER made with a 3.2l VR6 (that means 15deg V angle btw ;)) have been the Mk4 R32 and the Mk5 R32. Now considering BOTH of these have the haldex 4WD system fitted AS STANDARD there is NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE RUN IT IN FWD "For a week"

he never said it was an R32, could've been a golf III VR6
those were only 2.8l though, so he must have gotting it bored out

IF he has the car :lol:
 

ArosaMike

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bone said:
ArosaMike said:
The only Golfs EVER made with a 3.2l VR6 (that means 15deg V angle btw ;)) have been the Mk4 R32 and the Mk5 R32. Now considering BOTH of these have the haldex 4WD system fitted AS STANDARD there is NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE RUN IT IN FWD "For a week"

he never said it was an R32, could've been a golf III VR6
those were only 2.8l though, so he must have gotting it bored out

IF he has the car :lol:

As you say....he said it was 3.2l. I can tell you with confidence that the 2.8l VR6 cannot be bored to 3.2l as it has a maximum capacity of around 3l. Anything above this and the bores clash and you have nice big gaps between your cylinders! LOL. They got around this problem on the 3.2 by using T-Section pistons which allow you to go over 3l. It's not something you could do yourself though as it would require a new crank, cylinder head, valves....basically it'd be cheaper to just buy a 3.2l.

And anyway....all this is irrelivent. The 2.8l V6 was never sold in FWD in Europe and this guy is from Sweden apparently. It's only the States where you could get the old 12v motor in FWD VR6 GTI form in the MKIV. All 2.8l MKIVs in Europe were badged the V6 4Motion and used the 24v 2.8l engine.

On the contrary btw...I love fakers. It's fun to pick holes in the ludicrous statements :p I just don't really understand why they bother to make such silly comments (being 14 probably has something to do with it).

I'm guessing his lack of response to the rest of this post means he's given up :p

All the best,

Mike (owner of a 1000bhp Nissan Micra)
 

snars

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ArosaMike said:
Karoug said:
The only Golfs EVER made with a 3.2l VR6 (that means 15deg V angle btw ;)) have been the Mk4 R32 and the Mk5 R32. Now considering BOTH of these have the haldex 4WD system fitted AS STANDARD there is NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE RUN IT IN FWD "For a week"

I think this is for you :oops: :roll:

Please prove me wrong....
Ready? Here goes :mrgreen: Since the R32's 4wd drivetrain is based on a hydraulic clutch housed in the rear differential, that can distribute torque to the rear wheels by means of its own ECU based on infomation from sensors all over the car (engine load, throttle position, wheel speed, lateral acceleration etc etc), YES, it's very well possible to run an R32 as a frontwheeldrive car. It could be as simple as pulling a plug or fuse to disable the Haldex coupling. Another option would be to simply remove the central driveshaft.

So don't be too sure of your judgement ;)
 

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snars said:
ArosaMike said:
Karoug said:
The only Golfs EVER made with a 3.2l VR6 (that means 15deg V angle btw ;)) have been the Mk4 R32 and the Mk5 R32. Now considering BOTH of these have the haldex 4WD system fitted AS STANDARD there is NO WAY YOU COULD HAVE RUN IT IN FWD "For a week"

I think this is for you :oops: :roll:

Please prove me wrong....
Ready? Here goes :mrgreen: Since the R32's 4wd drivetrain is based on a hydraulic clutch housed in the rear differential, that can distribute torque to the rear wheels by means of its own ECU based on infomation from sensors all over the car (engine load, throttle position, wheel speed, lateral acceleration etc etc), YES, it's very well possible to run an R32 as a frontwheeldrive car. It could be as simple as pulling a plug or fuse to disable the Haldex coupling. Another option would be to simply remove the central driveshaft.

So don't be too sure of your judgement ;)
Yes, you could. But why would you do it? I could understand if he "unplugged" the front wheels to make it rear-wheel drive, but do that to make it FRONT wheel drive? :roll:
 

snars

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Redliner said:
Yes, you could. But why would you do it? I could understand if he "unplugged" the front wheels to make it rear-wheel drive, but do that to make it FRONT wheel drive? :roll:
Beats me. I suppose it's nice for testing purposes if there's only a two-wheel dyno available. My point is that it is in fact possible, with simple modifications, to run an R32 with just front wheel drive (or frontwheeldrive, front-wheel-drive...help me with the spelling here :? ). That's all.

Mind you, making it rear wheel drive would not be that easy, since the front wheels are driven permanently. And I'm guessing the central driveshaft takes its drive from one of the front wheel driveshafts, like it does in the old Golf syncro.
 

bone

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snars said:
Redliner said:
Yes, you could. But why would you do it? I could understand if he "unplugged" the front wheels to make it rear-wheel drive, but do that to make it FRONT wheel drive? :roll:
Beats me. I suppose it's nice for testing purposes if there's only a two-wheel dyno available. My point is that it is in fact possible, with simple modifications, to run an R32 with just front wheel drive (or frontwheeldrive, front-wheel-drive...help me with the spelling here :? ). That's all.

could you make it right wheel drive?
or left wheel drive

never been done before afaik :lol:
 

snars

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bone said:
could you make it right wheel drive?
or left wheel drive

never been done before afaik :lol:
If the diffs feature some sort of locking action: yes :) For instance, I have a VW syncro bus with 'normal' rear-wheel drive and a viscous coupling to distribute torque to the front wheels. The rear and front differentials both have a manually operated 100% lock (excellent for humiliating Landrovers, Landcruisers, Jeeps etc :thumbsup: ). So, by removing driveshafts and engaging the diff locks I can make it permanent 4wd, 3wd, 2wd or even 1wd in any possible combination. A pointless exercise, offcourse.

Holy offtopic conversation, Batman! :D
 

bone

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cool! you drive a synchro, i have some questions abou them as well

first, the VW synchro drives the rear wheels first?
so you have a drive shaft to the rear, and then one returning to the front?
(i thought it was the other way around, first front wheels, then rear wheels)

and there's sth i don't understand about those synchros. they use a viscous coupling, and if i understand correctly, that works kinda like a torque converter. you have a rotation that builds up oilpressure, which propell the other side of the coupling.

so the way i see it, those synchros are only good for keeping grip while on high speed
off road, or for taking off from the line it must suck caus the rear wheels must be spinning before some power is delivered to the front wheels

please correct :)
 

snars

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bone said:
cool! you drive a synchro, i have some questions abou them as well

first, the VW synchro drives the rear wheels first?
so you have a drive shaft to the rear, and then one returning to the front?
(i thought it was the other way around, first front wheels, then rear wheels)
First, it's syncro, not synchro ;)
The first 3 generations of VW minivans have a rear-engine, rearwheel-drive layout. So the engine lays behind the rear axle, like in a Beetle or Porsche. With the 3rd generation (commonly called T3, made from 79 to 92), VW decided to give it a go and develop a 4wd version to make the already versatile 'transporter' even better :)

What they actually did was hand it over to Austrian 4x4 specialist Steyr-Daimler-Puch (who also developped the Mercedes G, Panda 4x4, and militairy toys like the Pinzgauer). These guys modified the standard 5-speed transmission with a power-takeoff to drive a central driveshaft, which connects to the front diff. So the drivetrain looks like this, rear to front: engine, transmission (with built-in diff for the rear wheels offcourse), central driveshaft, front diff. The front diff houses the viscous coupling.

LPG_tank.jpg


(yes I got rid of that red gas tank :p)

A syncro is quite different from a normal 2wd bus:
- the larger, 70lt fuel tank is located above the transmission as oppossed to under the body. The engine + trans sit lower because of this.
- the front has a big subframe to mount the diff and front suspension.
- all along the underbody runs a steel construction to protect the drivetrain
- the gearbox is '4+G', meaning four normal forward gears and one crawler gear.

and there's sth i don't understand about those synchros. they use a viscous coupling, and if i understand correctly, that works kinda like a torque converter. you have a rotation that builds up oilpressure, which propell the other side of the coupling.

so the way i see it, those synchros are only good for keeping grip while on high speed
off road, or for taking off from the line it must suck caus the rear wheels must be spinning before some power is delivered to the front wheels

please correct :)
Allow me :) The working of the viscous coupling (VC) has been debated a lot among syncro enthousiasts. What I can tell you, is that it's not a torque convertor. Torque convertors rely on oil pressure to have one turbine wheel drive the other. A viscous coupling looks and works radically different:

VCdiag.JPG


Its closed steel housing features numerous grooved and drilled plates. The even plates are connected to the inside of the housing, and the uneven plates are connected to the outside of the housing. The in- and outside parts can rotate around each other. The coupling is also filled with a special silicon fluid.
So, one part of the coupling is connected to the rear wheels, and one part is connected to the front wheels. What happens is this: under normal driving conditions, the front and rear wheels spin at roughly the same speed. When the speed difference becomes greater than about 6% (for instance, when the rear wheels lose traction and slip), the plates 'rub' against the silicon fluid. This action causes the pressure and temperature inside the coupling to rise, and the fluid's viscosity changes (hence the viscous coupling): it becomes thicker. Now the coupling becomes almost rigid, and drive torque from the rear is transmitted to the front. In reality, this is a very fast proces. It is said to take place within a quarter turn of the wheels. The VC is alreay quite stiff by itself: you can't rotate a VC with your bare hands, but if you jack up one wheel with the car stationairy, it's possible to rotate it by hand, albeit very hard and very slow. There's also a noticeable difference in road-holding with the central driveshaft removed (disabling the front wheel drive).

What the VC basically does is allow for a certain amount of speed difference between the front and rear wheels, necessary for cornering but at the same time it provides instant, on-demand 4wheeldrive without driver intervention. This fool-proof 'allwheeldrive' capability is what made Steyr opt for the VC, and not a simple manually operated 'part-time 4wd' system like many other vehicles have.

So, to get back to your question: yes, the syncro 'needs' rear-wheel slippage for the front to kick in. But mind you: this happens almost instantaneously, and mostly unnoticable to the driver. It works in 95% of the situations. I only notice the VC action when accelerating hard on frozen streets: it takes like half a second for the front to fully engage, and then you're OFF, like a scalded COCK! (sorry, had a lil' Jeremy C. moment there :mrgreen: ).
Some sand-driving syncronauts (people take these things everywhere, from Iceland to the Sahara) have acknowledged that in soft sand, the rear tends to dig in before the front gets a chance to pull you out. A solution for this is a so-called 'decoupler kit', that replaces the VC with a manually operated 100% lock between rear and front wheels. This is better offroad, but compromises the original design's 'fool-proof 4wd', imho.

To top it off, the syncro could be ordered with optional 100% diff locks, which are very useful in situations where one wheel loses grip, causing all the power to 'leak' away through the open diff. Two versions exist: the more common 14"-wheeled syncro, and the heavy duty 16"-wheeled syncro, of which only 2138 were ever built. Needless to say I just had to have one of those :twisted: Retail prices were shocking, btw. mine served a few years in the military police before it was auctioned off to a private car trader.

Although VW aimed to create a bus that could handle bad or slippery roads, the syncro can do more. It works offroad, better than you'd expect from a box on wheels. I'll let the video's do the talking:
Syncro offroad in South-africa (12mb, WMV)
Syncro meeting @ Groesbeek motorcross course (27mb, WMV) <-- mind you, we're only using all-terrain tires which litterally suck in the mud.

Hm ok time to stop prattling :D I could go on for hours. Don't get me wrong: I love fast, new, luxureous, modern cars but these VW busses deserve a special place. They're practical and versatile, extremely fun to drive on any road, fun to work on, good-looking, well-built...I'm never EVER getting rid of it.

Sadly enough, the first terrain-capable syncro was also the last. Its succesor, the T4, was available with 4wd and a rear locker, but without any decent offroad gear. The current model, T5, is available in a beefed up 4motion version with Seikel suspension. But with their transverse, front-engine design they'll never be 'real' VW busses anyway.
 

bone

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great explanation! :bow:

reason for asking is that a friend is searching for a MKIII VR6 syncro
off road capabilities won't be used that much though ;)

but those are front engined, which wheels are driven first on them?


PS: you guys are nuts taking those vans throught that terrain :eek:
 

bone

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i've watched those vids several times now (especially the first)...

...i also want a van like that

they're f*cking insane! :shock:
 

ArosaMike

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snars said:
Ready? Here goes :mrgreen: Since the R32's 4wd drivetrain is based on a hydraulic clutch housed in the rear differential, that can distribute torque to the rear wheels by means of its own ECU based on infomation from sensors all over the car (engine load, throttle position, wheel speed, lateral acceleration etc etc), YES, it's very well possible to run an R32 as a frontwheeldrive car. It could be as simple as pulling a plug or fuse to disable the Haldex coupling. Another option would be to simply remove the central driveshaft.

So don't be too sure of your judgement ;)

Yes...I'm well aware of that and have seen the EIP dyno runs with it on a 2wd dyno, but you'd be nuts to run the car like that on the road (especially with 450bhp) and tbh, I did secifically say 'did you have the 4wd conversion done?'. Sticking the Haldex circuit fuse back into the fusebox doesn't count as a conversion to me as the car comes standard in 4wd. I was trying to catch him out because I know HPA in Canada do a 4wd conversion for the 2.8 GTI over there in the states.
 
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