narf
Sgt. Maj. Buzzkill
Where did all the VW is a corporation of dirty cheating whores talk go?
That became so much less interesting since this:
Volkswagen is in trouble with just about everybody on the f'ing planet
- Thread starter LazarusMP
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That became so much less interesting since this:
MacGuffin
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Apparently they're now checking on everything that isn't profitable.
And since neither Piech nor Winterkorn are in a position of power anymore, I'd like to be the first one to say goodbye to Bugatti...
And since neither Piech nor Winterkorn are in a position of power anymore, I'd like to be the first one to say goodbye to Bugatti...
rickhamilton620
has a fetish for terrible cars
A friend of mine and I were discussing this the other day.
VW has a sizable portfolio of brands. If they needed to tighten the purse strings surely one or more could disappear.
Besides the cost intensive Bugatti brand, I could possibly see Seat going bye-bye....iirc there had been reports in the past of the brand struggling to move cars. Is this true FG Euro contingent?
MWF
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I've been saying that for several years. It seems someone is listening at least.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/green-cars/first-zero-emission-hydrogen-filling-station-opens/
I happen to be fond of Seat but I suspect you are correct. Nobody seems to have bought into the whole "cooler than VW for trendy youngsters and a bit like a sort of Spanish Alfa Romeo" vibe they've been pushing for the last few years. It's a shame because the Leon in particular is a far more stylish car than a Golf while essentially being a Golf underneath. Sadly they have ruined the smaller ibiza by putting the interior of a 2004 Skoda Fabia into the current flagship model which is why my mum didn't buy another one when she was looking earlier this year.
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argatoga
Can't Start His Wank
Bugatti is a goner, but I suspect profitable low volume brands will find themselves pawned off as well. Lamborghini, Bentley, Ducati, and if particularly desperate Porsche can see themselves go in a fire sale.
MacGuffin
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They would be mad selling Porsche. It's their biggest source of profit by far.
MWF
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I think they will even avoid getting rid of Bugatti if they can. They already cancelled the Galibier, the Chiron is well down the development road and if it is as suspected an evolution of much of the tech that already exists with the Veyron they could actually be in with a chance of making money with the thing. The people with the kind of money to afford such things aren't likely to give a stuff about environmental concerns anyway so the brand connotations won't affect them.
Cancelling the new Phaeton is probably a better bet.
Cancelling the new Phaeton is probably a better bet.
JimCorrigan
Well-Known Member
Unless the Porsche family that has majority ownership in VW wants to be rid of the parent company. But somehow I suspect that this could not happen without either selling it off to an unrelated third party or doing something illegal a la insider trading.
I see nothing with that. Do a Ford and focus on your main brand(s).
D
D-Fence
Guest
ADAC checked which cars differ by what factor from legal values. The winner: Nissan X-Trail, which did 15 times the legal limit. Lots of Opels in the bad field, lots of BMWs and Mercedes in the top. I am not suprised.
And here divided by Euro 5 and Euro 6 emission limits (the limit is the coloured bar)
For some reason this test takes into account the fuel production and transport too...
And here divided by Euro 5 and Euro 6 emission limits (the limit is the coloured bar)
For some reason this test takes into account the fuel production and transport too...
narf
Sgt. Maj. Buzzkill
The second graph suggests the Jeep is doing over 17 times the limit...? It seems each graph has its own distinct data set.
MacGuffin
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Well, let's point out that VW isn't on the brink of bankruptcy (unlike GM and Ford a couple of years ago) and very likely won't get there. What they're doing now, is simply seeing that they can get their hand on as much cash as possible just because it's still unknown how much it will cost VW.
To give you a perspective, for the next years VW planned investments of about 85 billion Euros. They're on hold for now and subject to another check. I guess most other car makers would love to have that kind of "financial trouble".
Oh, and before some starts going "Oh no, not the ADAC again, they are also untrustworthy" (looking at Spectre): They have been working hard on regaining the consumers' trust and they're on a good way. Don't forget they were strongly involved in starting the whole drama in the first place. And they have been pointing out the unrealistic data of the car industry for years - without anyone listening.
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kurthest
Well-Known Member
The answer to the smog problems is extremely simply.
Move the cars out of the city.
They are doing that in Oslo, they are progressively making it harder and within a couple of years, the inner ring of the city will be free of cars.
Even though I am a petrolhead, I welcome this with open arms.
The public transportation solution is very good in Oslo, it's very cheap to use (one card, monthly fee of about 80 USD gives access to all public transportation (including bus, train, metro, tram, boats)).
It's so much nicer to go to the town center now without all the cars buzzing around, and it will be even better when the inner ring ban is in place.
Keep the massive traffic out of the citiies!
About the current VW cheat; I don't really care, but I hope it leads to the downfall of all diesel engines in private cars.
Move the cars out of the city.
They are doing that in Oslo, they are progressively making it harder and within a couple of years, the inner ring of the city will be free of cars.
Even though I am a petrolhead, I welcome this with open arms.
The public transportation solution is very good in Oslo, it's very cheap to use (one card, monthly fee of about 80 USD gives access to all public transportation (including bus, train, metro, tram, boats)).
It's so much nicer to go to the town center now without all the cars buzzing around, and it will be even better when the inner ring ban is in place.
Keep the massive traffic out of the citiies!
About the current VW cheat; I don't really care, but I hope it leads to the downfall of all diesel engines in private cars.
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Labcoatguy
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Next step, find a solution that works in a country without small dense cities or fifty years of oil revenues in the bank.
MWF
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LCG is right. Most US cities at least don't lend themselves to mass transit systems because they cover such a vast area; New York with its subway and Chicago with the "El" are exceptions rather than the rule. Four years ago while in Texas for example my friend who I was visiting had to work from home for a couple of days so my other buddy and I arranged to hook up with Spectre for the afternoon. We got dropped off at the nearest DART station to my friend's house, had to wait a good long while for the thing then another wait in central Dallas to get out to Spectre's place. It took us over two hours to do a journey that would have taken no more than 30 minutes by car but even that journey is mainly on motorway type routes and is a distance of roughly 25 miles by the shortest route. By public transport such as it was the distance was over 30 miles.
The modern US was built around the idea of the automobile and the fact that in most areas the one thing they aren't really short of is space. And as many of our US members will testify even if the huge investment is made in mass transit infrastructure no bugger uses it, or proportionally few do at least. You think you get an uproar when you suggest Americans give up their guns? Try suggesting they give up their cars and you'll really get their hackles up!
SirEdward
Well-Known Member
Most of the air pollution problem doesn't come from inner city centres, nor from private traffic.
Plus, you'll get nice city centres, but you won't delete cars from our lives, to go everywhere else, including, in most of the cases, to and from work, or to and from places which can't be reached adequately with public trasnportation. You can't take away cars from there, and those are the cars which account for most of the car-produced air pollution by number.
Is the inner ring of Oslo the central 1km radius area between the central station and the royal castle? If it is, the norwegian plan is similar to that of most other european cities, including mine (here the final target is 2km in radius). It has been for at least 3 decades. Besides the problem of realizing such an achievement, that will leave any other part of the city mostly unchanged.
If done in the right way (e.g. without making life miserable for everyone), me too. I find Stockholm did manage to do something like what you proposed (but I was just a tourist, and Gamla Stan is 500m in radius).
You live in a very out-of-the-ordinary world, I think. A very wealthy and well organized nation. But beware, your welfare is funded partly with oil revenues.
Yes.
Why? If you tackle particulate and NOx pollution, a diesel is less polluting than a petrol car. Or a petrol car would be less polluting if you could tackle the CO2 and th carcinogenic leftovers HC produced by it.
You're still burning fossil fuel: the level of pollution depends on your technological ability to intercept and contain the pollutants, not so much on the fuel itself.
Even an EV can pollute more than a diesel car, if its energy is produced in the wrong way.
Technology is technology.
kurthest
Well-Known Member
Less bombing in the Middle East = lots of money that could be spent on other stuff.
But yeah, of course the government and city authorities would need to prioritize harshly, which would benefit the citizens down the line with cleaner air in the cities.
Here in Norway, it's not just about oil revenues, it's also about how they tax cars.
With the current oil prices, the norwegian state gets about 3 times more from car taxes than they get from oil.
Taxes on cars is extreme here, they tax for horsepower, weight, CO2 and NOx emissions.
Which is also why the government has launched an investigation towards VW.
As an example of car taxing, a new BMW M4 cost about 1.4 million NOK with the most common extras (Navigation, HK speakers, HUD, parking sensors, DCT gearbox).
HP tax: 458815, Weight tax: 91704, CO2 tax: 87552, NOx tax: 792, Total = 638 863 NOK.
On top of this there is also a VAT of 25%.
These taxes were first meant to pay for expanding public transportation, but is now used as any other tax, flooding into the big pool.
Perc
Very Odd Looking Vehicular Object
Or in other words: "Because Fuck You."
laxmax613
Well-Known Member
VW has issued a stop-sale on all Polo variants in India. They're saying it's unrelated to the emissions scandal, but might that only be a part of the story?