Weineck Cobra 780 cui Limited Edition

Xeon SX said:
12900CC and only 1100HP, Im not impressed :thumbsdown:

Sure, it has a low HP/L. However, HP/L is a figure invented by people with cylinder envy, so they can feel good about driving I-4 economy cars. ;)

Seriously, who gives a rat's ass how much displacement it has? It doesn't make a difference, it still has 1100HP. Which is exactly double the most powerful car I've ever driven. Scary.
 
Low Hp/L?
It has more horsepower per litre than the Pagani Zonda F.
At 85HP/l it is very impressive for a naturally aspirated engine.
 
DarkReaper said:
Low Hp/L?
It has more horsepower per litre than the Pagani Zonda F.
At 85HP/l is very impressive for a naturally aspirated engine.
Exactly. Specially an engine this big. I?m also impressed that it revs to 8.000 rpm. :shock:
 
so whats the gas milage on one of those things? 0.5mpg? :p
 
logo said:
so whats the gas milage on one of those things? 0.5mpg? :p
It's probably measured in gallons per mile :)
 
DarkReaper said:
Low Hp/L?
It has more horsepower per litre than the Pagani Zonda F.
At 85HP/l it is very impressive for a naturally aspirated engine.

Natural aspiration is a lousy excuse imo. It's like breaking a record for a handicap-sport; you are indeed the best, but not really good...

Lurch0001 said:
Xeon SX said:
12900CC and only 1100HP, Im not impressed :thumbsdown:

"only" 1100HP? "ONLY" 1100HP?!?!? Are you serious?

I'd expect about 2500hp from and engine that size. Supercharged of course, but still...

geeman said:
logo said:
so whats the gas milage on one of those things? 0.5mpg? :p
It's probably measured in gallons per mile :)

No it's not. Brits you know. But it's not really such a stupid idea. It's the imperial measurements that should have been trashed ages ago...
 
vanMould said:
Natural aspiration is a lousy excuse imo. It's like breaking a record for a handicap-sport; you are indeed the best, but not really good...

So you're saying that having more HP/L than a Zonda F (as useless as that figure is) is somehow unimpressive? They're both N/A, what's your point? A lousy excuse for what? What the hell are you talking about?


vanMould said:
I'd expect about 2500hp from and engine that size. Supercharged of course, but still...

Let's have a quick, very basic lesson in Engine Building 101, shall we?

1) An engine's internals can only handle so much power output. There are 2 types of engine stresses - torque output and RPM. Torque is the base power developed, and RPM is how often that torque is "created" by the reciprocating assembly.

2) It makes little to no difference to the engine's internals whether the engine is N/A or FI, short of the compression ratio usually being lower on an FI motor. A block built for 1300 lb-ft will hold up to 1300lb-ft, whether it's N/A or FI.

3) 2500HP out of a supercharged 13L engine is pretty much impossible to do reliably. Once you hit around the 2000HP mark, you need to rebuild your engine every 1000 or so miles if you drive like a grandmother, and every 50-100 of you flog it. Metals able to withstand that kind of power just don't exist yet. (Or they don't exist for non-ridiculous prices)

Thus, your idea that any 13L engine should be making 2500HP supercharged is rather stupid and demonstrates that you really don't know what you're talking about. This is an impressive engine. End of discussion.
 
BerserkerCatSplat said:
vanMould said:
Natural aspiration is a lousy excuse imo. It's like breaking a record for a handicap-sport; you are indeed the best, but not really good...

So you're saying that having more HP/L than a Zonda F (as useless as that figure is) is somehow unimpressive? They're both N/A, what's your point? A lousy excuse for what? What the hell are you talking about?

My point is that a hardcore-tunercar (which i believe this Cobra is supposed to be) having less HP/L than the reliable Honda Civic Type R, which is also N/A, is not impressive. Even though the Honda is unusally powerful.

Are you sure that the Zonda is N/A btw? I'm dunno myself, but I think it sounds wierd to lift an engine from Mercedes with AMG badges and everything, and then remove the supercharger...

BerserkerCatSplat said:
vanMould said:
I'd expect about 2500hp from and engine that size. Supercharged of course, but still...

Let's have a quick, very basic lesson in Engine Building 101, shall we?

1) An engine's internals can only handle so much power output. There are 2 types of engine stresses - torque output and RPM. Torque is the base power developed, and RPM is how often that torque is "created" by the reciprocating assembly.

2) It makes little to no difference to the engine's internals whether the engine is N/A or FI, short of the compression ratio usually being lower on an FI motor. A block built for 1300 lb-ft will hold up to 1300lb-ft, whether it's N/A or FI.

3) 2500HP out of a supercharged 13L engine is pretty much impossible to do reliably. Once you hit around the 2000HP mark, you need to rebuild your engine every 1000 or so miles if you drive like a grandmother, and every 50-100 of you flog it. Metals able to withstand that kind of power just don't exist yet. (Or they don't exist for non-ridiculous prices)

Thus, your idea that any 13L engine should be making 2500HP supercharged is rather stupid and demonstrates that you really don't know what you're talking about. This is an impressive engine. End of discussion.

Does that Cobra look like an everyday drive to you? Sure it's roadlegal and stuff, but I don't believe for a second that it was built to be driven back and forth to work everyday.

The reason that I expect 2500hp out of it is that the only place where I think an engine that size belongs is in a dragracer. I don't expect that car to have 2500hp, I expect it to have a smaller engine. Koenigsegg could theoretically do the same thing with a 6.5l engine, and still be reliable (yes I know, the CCR is not reliable, but that's not the engine's fault). Radical could theoretically do the same thing with a N/A 8l engine.

So nope, you still haven't convinced me that 85hp/l is a job well done...
 
It actually is for this size engine. Look at the torque it makes. A normal v8 would never be able to hit that amount of Trq without a supercharger or the same engine size and still be reliable. Like Berserker said, it's not the amount of power but how long je can actually sustain that amount of power with the materials used. It's no use having 2500hp when you can't put it on the road propperly or when you nedd to rebuild the engine every 100 miles or so. People would just never buy such a vehicle.
 
vanMould said:
So nope, you still haven't convinced me that 85hp/l is a job well done...

Please explain to me why on earth you think HP/L is somehow important, especially in a case such as this.

Fun Fact: The more displacement an engine has, the easier it is to make it reliable at high HP/torque numbers, as engine stress is more widely distributed.
 
Nelis said:
It actually is for this size engine. Look at the torque it makes. A normal v8 would never be able to hit that amount of Trq without a supercharger or the same engine size and still be reliable. Like Berserker said, it's not the amount of power but how long je can actually sustain that amount of power with the materials used. It's no use having 2500hp when you can't put it on the road propperly or when you nedd to rebuild the engine every 100 miles or so. People would just never buy such a vehicle.

As I said, I don't expect this car to have 2500hp. I expect the engine to have 2500hp for me to be impressed. I expect the car to have a smaller engine.

BerserkerCatSplat said:
vanMould said:
So nope, you still haven't convinced me that 85hp/l is a job well done...

Please explain to me why on earth you think HP/L is somehow important, especially in a case such as this.

I haven't really got any good reason. I suppose that I'm a bit like Jezza. I'm fascinated by engineering, and unsophisticated monsters such as this one annoys me. So I whine, just like Jezza would do.
 
BerserkerCatSplat said:
vanMould said:
So nope, you still haven't convinced me that 85hp/l is a job well done...

Please explain to me why on earth you think HP/L is somehow important, especially in a case such as this.

Fun Fact: The more displacement an engine has, the easier it is to make it reliable at high HP/torque numbers, as engine stress is more widely distributed.
to get a 12.9L v8 to rev to 8000 rpm and make 1100 hp is insane, period. big engine without a lot of cylinders just want to make torque, they dont want to rev or to make any hp. you also have to remember that it is a lot easier to make a more reliable motor if it has more cylinders for the same reason as a bigger engine, the distribution of all the stress.
 
vanMould said:
I haven't really got any good reason. I suppose that I'm a bit like Jezza. I'm fascinated by engineering, and unsophisticated monsters such as this one annoys me. So I whine, just like Jezza would do.

Jeremy Clarkson barely knows how an internal combustion engine works, forget being impressed by the "engineering." Seriously, he's stated many times that he has no idea how cars work, really. Jeremy Clarkson enjoys making fun of American cars, and that's the only time you'll hear him making fun of displacement.

And calling this engine "unsophisticated" is rather uninformed. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a large-displacement V8 to rev to 8000RPM without breaking stuff? It's damned near impossible! The precision engineering that must have gone into this engine is truly staggering! Sure, it still uses pushrods and carburetors, but that's mainly because a fuel-injected DOHC V8 with that kind of displacement would never fit in an AC Cobra engine bay! They did what they needed to do with what they had to work with - and I think that's more impressive than having no limitations on engine design at all. Weineck has created earth-shattering power from an engine small and simple enough to fit in a Cobra shell.

patrick10: Yes, having more cylinders is an excellent way to increase high-HP reliability! However, shoehorning a V10 or V12 into the Cobra's engine compartment is next to impossible! I know there's at least one Cobra with a Viper motor running around, but it all had to be custom-fabbed and it's not putting out nearly the same numbers as the Weineck unit.

unloadingday%20(5).JPG
 
BerserkerCatSplat said:
vanMould said:
I haven't really got any good reason. I suppose that I'm a bit like Jezza. I'm fascinated by engineering, and unsophisticated monsters such as this one annoys me. So I whine, just like Jezza would do.

Jeremy Clarkson barely knows how an internal combustion engine works, forget being impressed by the "engineering." Seriously, he's stated many times that he has no idea how cars work, really. Jeremy Clarkson enjoys making fun of American cars, and that's the only time you'll hear him making fun of displacement.

If this had been Top Gear and I'd been JC, you would be standing in the far back of the studio by now ;)

The reason that he seldom picks on european and asian cars is probably because they've very seldom got engines that size.

BerserkerCatSplat said:
And calling this engine "unsophisticated" is rather uninformed. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a large-displacement V8 to rev to 8000RPM without breaking stuff? It's damned near impossible! The precision engineering that must have gone into this engine is truly staggering! Sure, it still uses pushrods and carburetors, but that's mainly because a fuel-injected DOHC V8 with that kind of displacement would never fit in an AC Cobra engine bay! They did what they needed to do with what they had to work with - and I think that's more impressive than having no limitations on engine design at all. Weineck has created earth-shattering power from an engine small and simple enough to fit in a Cobra shell.

Yeah, I know. I've used the S-word before while whining about the Corvette with a huge stir as a result. I hesitated on using it here again but I couldn't come up with any better word.

But back on topic: your arguments for using a pushrod engine with carburettors is basicly to keep the bonnet sleek? Well...they sure managed that, didn't they? :p

I find it wierd to build an engine to be as powerful as possible while sticking to limits that they've made up themselves, instead of building an engine as powerful as possible over all. Keeping the height down is a weak argument imo, especially if you stick a monsterous scope to it afterwards.
 
vanMould said:
But back on topic: your arguments for using a pushrod engine with carburettors is basicly to keep the bonnet sleek? Well...they sure managed that, didn't they? :p

I find it wierd to build an engine to be as powerful as possible while sticking to limits that they've made up themselves, instead of building an engine as powerful as possible over all. Keeping the height down is a weak argument imo, especially if you stick a monsterous scope to it afterwards.

No, the height wasn't an issue, the width was the problem! FE Cobras were designed for the 427FE block, which takes up waaay less space than a compareable-displacement OHC motor. Their restrictions were created by the platform they chose, and they built the engine accordingly. Yes, they could have done FI on a smaller engine, but it would have been less reliable. I think they built an engine with as much power as they could build without entering rebuild-every-month territory.
 
vanMould said:
Are you sure that the Zonda is N/A btw? I'm dunno myself, but I think it sounds wierd to lift an engine from Mercedes with AMG badges and everything, and then remove the supercharger...

To me, that?s proof enough that you have no idea about cars and engineering.
 
Redliner said:
vanMould said:
Are you sure that the Zonda is N/A btw? I'm dunno myself, but I think it sounds wierd to lift an engine from Mercedes with AMG badges and everything, and then remove the supercharger...

To me, that?s proof enough that you have no idea about cars and engineering.

That engine is basically the same as in the old SL73, and no it did not have a supercharger, I dont even think that AMG or Mercedes have ever fitted a supercharger on a V12 at least not in the past couple of years.
 
Top