Whale wars: Watch Eco-pussies attack japanese whalers, and fail hilariously

From Yahoo (I edited it obviously)...

Japan insists its whaling program in Antarctic waters complies with international law, following a threat by Australia to take legal action.

...Kevin Rudd on Friday bluntly warned Japan that it must commit by November to reducing its annual whale catch to zero or face action in the International Court of Justice.

Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada called the threat "unfortunate"...

Japan's top government spokesman... on Monday said the international court was not the right forum for the dispute because Japan's "research whaling" was legal under international law.

"It's not whether we'll stop research whaling or not," Hirano told reporters. "We've been doing it under an international agreement."

Japan does not hide the fact that the whale meat is later sold in shops and restaurants and says whaling has for centuries been part of the island-nation's culture.

Why would they hide it? It's basically a requirement.

And that, as well as the last bolded part, is irrelevant to the discussion of scientific research - clearly designed to bias the readers' view on the purpose of the program when read together.

If the Japanese scientific catch is a thinly disguised commercial venture, then the creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary is, well...

Dr. Douglas Butterworth has suggested that the sanctuary in "the Southern Ocean [is] a transparent attempt to prevent the resumption of whaling on the 750,000 strong Antarctic Minke population for reasons which have nothing to do with science."

And while Australia is threatening some kind of legal action, the IWC refuses to submit to impartial, legal scrutiny...

Japan has asked the IWC to submit its case (to remove the sanctuary) to a relevant legal body for analysis. The IWC has refused to do so.
 
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It's election year here in Australia, so Kev will probably come out with a few more throw away claims about saving whales and it'll be back to business as usual
 
I still don't see whats so damn special about these whales if they're not endangered.
 
Fin whales are listed as "vulnerable" and reproduce slowly with over 11 months of gestation for one calf. Their populations are currently at about 30% of what they were before commercial whaling reduced the population.

One of the reasons whales are endangered in the first place is because of whaling. Larger whales were targeted because it was more efficient to kill one whale for the oil. With the status of larger whales like Blue, Gray, Humpback and Sperm being endangered and on the brink of extinction. That means that whalers turn to smaller species like Fin whales.

The concern is that continued whaling will bring another species to the brink of extinction. Considering the tendency of the whalers to ignore any sort of sustainability (ie, killing juveniles) is one of the key concerns about this.
 
1 : seize SS boat AND japanese wailing boats, take everyone prisoner
2 : put them on a deserted island
3 : give them weapons, preferably the bloody wounds inflicting kind
4 : film the whole thing and put it live on payperview
5 : profit
 
Fin whales are listed as "vulnerable" and reproduce slowly with over 11 months of gestation for one calf. Their populations are currently at about 30% of what they were before commercial whaling reduced the population.

One of the reasons whales are endangered in the first place is because of whaling. Larger whales were targeted because it was more efficient to kill one whale for the oil. With the status of larger whales like Blue, Gray, Humpback and Sperm being endangered and on the brink of extinction. That means that whalers turn to smaller species like Fin whales.

The concern is that continued whaling will bring another species to the brink of extinction. Considering the tendency of the whalers to ignore any sort of sustainability (ie, killing juveniles) is one of the key concerns about this.

If whaling is the issue, won't responsible, controlled whaling take care of that? It seems a much more convincing idea than international sanctions. If Japan is the only country that's doing it, I don't really see how its a big hindrance to the 750,000 whale's existence. How many of these whales are born each year? and how many live to adulthood? If the birthrate is in excess of the death rate, then I'm not sure there's a problem
 
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My personal concern is the lack of basic responsibility in the whaling practices. First the Japanese were taking endangered species, or species that just came off the endangered list. I think that was discussed in another thread. The whalers still actively target juveniles because they know the mother won't leave the calf.

Any responsible fisherman knows that you don't take juveniles or females, it depletes the population and ultimately shuts down your own livelihood while decimating the population. That's why even sport fishermen have limits and size restrictions. To me, this one act shows that Japan does not give a damn about sustainability, if they did they would not target calves and juveniles, but work to harvest whales in a sustainable manner.

Also, I'm having a hard time trusting an organization with such convoluted ownership that lies about it's intended purpose to make use of legal loopholes. If they want to take the moral high ground and make the argument for responsible, sustainable whaling with a cultural heritage then they need to do that and stop obfuscating the issue with claims of "research" when even the IWC has condemned their phony research practices.
 
Ah, well since I wont be doing anymore research into the matter (since I really couldn't care less), I'll agree that there's quite a bit of B.S. going on with this whole situation. I still don't support the sea shepherd douches though.
 
On the matter of research: is there any public source for the latest results of the research the Japanese are conducting?
 
I wasn't able to find anything the last time I looked, but I only have access to a few scholastic databases.

The other thing I wanted to find out was how much the non-profit research firm who runs the whaling fleet actually pays to lease those ships and to whom. They keep saying that they are a non-profit research group, but my instinct tells me that there's someone making a buck here. The Institute of Cetacean Research leases the ships from another company. If I were in their place I would create the non-profit research firm to lease my ships from myself at a hugely inflated rate. Then the non-profit stays non-profit and can hide commercial whaling in the legal "research" loophole. It's the perfect system to create plausible deniability.

At least, that's what I would do. Toss in a few shell corporations to mask the ties between the two and you're all set.

Just found this nugget: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623120846.htm

Scientists are warning that a new form of unregulated whaling has emerged along the coastlines of Japan and South Korea, where the commercial sale of whales killed as fisheries "bycatch" is threatening coastal stocks of minke whales and other protected species.

Scott Baker, associate director of the Marine Mammal Institute at Oregon State University, says DNA analysis of whale-meat products sold in Japanese markets suggests that the number of whales actually killed through this "bycatch whaling" may be equal to that killed through Japan's scientific whaling program ? about 150 annually from each source.

Baker, a cetacean expert, and Vimoksalehi Lukoscheck of the University of California-Irvine presented their findings at the recent scientific meeting of the International Whaling Commission (IWC) in Portugal. Their study found that nearly 46 percent of the minke whale products they examined in Japanese markets originated from a coastal population, which has distinct genetic characteristics, and is protected by international agreements.

Their conclusion: As many as 150 whales came from the coastal population through commercial bycatch whaling, and another 150 were taken from an open ocean population through Japan's scientific whaling. In some past years, Japan only reported about 19 minke whales killed through bycatch, though that number has increased recently as new regulations governing commercial bycatch have been adopted, Baker said.

Japan is now seeking IWC agreement to initiate a small coastal whaling program, a proposal which Baker says should be scrutinized carefully because of the uncertainty of the actual catch and the need to determine appropriate population counts to sustain the distinct stocks.

Whales are occasionally killed in entanglements with fishing nets and the deaths of large whales are reported by most member nations of the IWC. Japan and South Korea are the only countries that allow the commercial sale of products killed as "incidental bycatch." The sheer number of whales represented by whale-meat products on the market suggests that both countries have an inordinate amount of bycatch, Baker said.

"The sale of bycatch alone supports a lucrative trade in whale meat at markets in some Korean coastal cities, where the wholesale price of an adult minke whale can reach as high as $100,000," Baker said. "Given these financial incentives, you have to wonder how many of these whales are, in fact, killed intentionally."


In Japan, whale-meat products enter into the commercial supply chain that supports the nationwide distribution of whale and dolphin products for human consumption, including products from scientific whaling. However, Baker and his colleagues have developed genetic methods for identifying the species of whale-meat products and determining how many individual whales may actually have been killed.

Baker said bycatch whaling also serves as a cover for illegal hunting, but the level at which it occurs is unknown. In January 2008, Korean police launched an investigation into organized illegal whaling in the port town of Ulsan, he said, reportedly seizing 50 tons of minke whale meat.

Other protected species of large whales detected in market surveys include humpbacks whales, fin whales, Bryde's whales and critically endangered western gray whales. The entanglement and death of western or Asian gray whales is of particular concern given the extremely small size of this endangered populations, which is estimated at only 100 individuals.


It will be published in a forthcoming issue of the journal Animal Conservation.
 
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A single Minke Whale is worth 100k$?! I gotta get me a fishing boat and go whalehunting!
 
You can see why I doubt that they aren't making any money. The whalers intend to take 400 Minke whales per season (not including other species). That's $40 Million a year.
 
On the matter of research: is there any public source for the latest results of the research the Japanese are conducting?

I wasn't able to find anything the last time I looked, but I only have access to a few scholastic databases.

Most of the papers are published in scientific journals, you can get a list of all the papers published from the ICR website.

Here is a page about the JARPA research results.

And the most recent publications (2008) with extracts.



Scientists are warning that a new form of unregulated whaling has emerged along the coastlines of Japan and South Korea, where the commercial sale of whales killed as fisheries "bycatch" is threatening coastal stocks of minke whales and other protected species.

I have mentioned bycatch and ship strikes already as a far bigger threat to whales but you dismissed it due to the fact that they were "accidental" kills. There's nothing wrong with selling/eating accidental bycatch, in fact it's preferable to tossing it back in the ocean.


...analysis of whale-meat products sold in Japanese markets suggests that the number of whales actually killed through this "bycatch whaling" may be equal to that killed through Japan's scientific whaling program ? about 150 annually from each source.

Ignoring the obvious mistake, where these samples were taken may have a large impact on the results. Whales caught as bycatch would most likely be processed and sold locally whereas the whales taken through JARPA would be processed and sold centrally.

Edit: Apparently the regulations changed in 2001 (from very poor memory) and they now allow bycatch to be traded through larger networks, previously they had to be sold locally or destroyed. I would still question whether the proportion of whale meat from bycatch vs scientific research at any one market, or even a number of markets, is truly representative of the total proportion.


In some past years, Japan only reported about 19 minke whales killed through bycatch, though that number has increased recently as new regulations governing commercial bycatch have been adopted, Baker said.

The number reported has increased, not the number killed.


Whales are occasionally killed in entanglements with fishing nets and the deaths of large whales are reported by most member nations of the IWC. Japan and South Korea are the only countries that allow the commercial sale of products killed as "incidental bycatch." The sheer number of whales represented by whale-meat products on the market suggests that both countries have an inordinate amount of bycatch, Baker said.

Impossible to tell. Firstly, the assertion that a similar number of whales are taken through bycatch as through the scientific research is simply a "suggestion". Secondly, to say that both countries have an "inordinate" amount of bycatch due to the amount of whale meat on sale is ridiculous considering they are the only 2 countries that allow its sale! Who's to say how much whale meat would be on sale in any given country if they were allowed to sell it and there was a market - not to mention that some countries don't even report bycatch.


Baker said bycatch whaling also serves as a cover for illegal hunting, but the level at which it occurs is unknown. In January 2008, Korean police launched an investigation into organized illegal whaling in the port town of Ulsan, he said, reportedly seizing 50 tons of minke whale meat.

Obviously if fishermen are conducting illegal whaling then it is of concern. Good thing the local authorities are onto it.
 
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The other thing I wanted to find out was how much the non-profit research firm who runs the whaling fleet actually pays to lease those ships and to whom. They keep saying that they are a non-profit research group, but my instinct tells me that there's someone making a buck here.

Your instinct is probably wrong.

The whalers intend to take 400 Minke whales per season (not including other species). That's $40 Million a year.

Also consider this; in 2007 the SS spent nearly $2.5M on their mission, that was one ship and a volunteer crew (or a crew that pays to board - which is illegal). That doesn't include Watson's salary of nearly $100k.

They don't spend as long down there, they don't travel as far and they don't pay tax.

Now think how much it might cost to send 4-7 ships down there, from much further away, with a full, paid crew.


The Institute of Cetacean Research leases the ships from another company. If I were in their place I would create the non-profit research firm to lease my ships from myself at a hugely inflated rate. Then the non-profit stays non-profit and can hide commercial whaling in the legal "research" loophole. It's the perfect system to create plausible deniability.

At least, that's what I would do. Toss in a few shell corporations to mask the ties between the two and you're all set.

Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha runs the operation, they are a subsidiary of the ICR.

Just because an American student can't find information about internal financial dealings between a non-profit organisation and a private, domestic Japanese company on the internet, in English, doesn't mean there's some kind of conspiracy.

Would you like me to re-post the information about the SS's donors and their shady dealings and FBI investigation etc?


A single Minke Whale is worth 100k$?! I gotta get me a fishing boat and go whalehunting!

A single blue fin tuna sold for $175,000 this year. It was less than a 1/4 tonne whereas a Minke whale is between 5-10 tonne.



Edit:

It's election year here in Australia, so Kev will probably come out with a few more throw away claims about saving whales and it'll be back to business as usual

Sorry, I missed you. That makes a lot of sense.

I just read that there's a UN law set to come into effect mid 2011 that will prohibit ships from burning heavy fuel South of 60 degrees latitude. Ships won't even be able to carry the heavy fuel. This is to protect the environment in case of a spill and means the whaling fleet won't be able to travel to the usual area or will have to pay something like 50% more in fuel costs. Good news for Antarctica.
 
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Your instinct is probably wrong.

Yes, because no profitable multi-million dollar industry has ever made use of government subsidies. Just because the industry is supported with tax payer money doesn't make it unprofitable, in fact, it virtually guarantees profitability since many of the expenses are paid by the national government.

Also consider this; in 2007 the SS spent nearly $2.5M on their mission, that was one ship and a volunteer crew (or a crew that pays to board - which is illegal). That doesn't include Watson's salary of nearly $100k.

They don't spend as long down there, they don't travel as far and they don't pay tax.

Now think how much it might cost to send 4-7 ships down there, from much further away, with a full, paid crew.
And considering the $40 million/trip they can rake in (plus government subsidies), my bet is that it still leaves room for profit.

Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha runs the operation, they are a subsidiary of the ICR.

Just because an American student can't find information about internal financial dealings between a non-profit organisation and a private, domestic Japanese company on the internet, in English, doesn't mean there's some kind of conspiracy.
I never said that my inability to find any information was proof of a conspiracy, in fact I never even used the word conspiracy. It's just business.

Would you like me to re-post the information about the SS's donors and their shady dealings and FBI investigation etc?
I thought I was talking about the Japanese Whalers, not the Sea Sheppards. I have already conceded that the Sea Sheppards have shady practices of their own, on that we agree. I was trying to limit the scope of my comments to the actions of the Japanese fleet.

I just read that there's a UN law set to come into effect mid 2011 that will prohibit ships from burning heavy fuel South of 60 degrees latitude. Ships won't even be able to carry the heavy fuel. This is to protect the environment in case of a spill and means the whaling fleet won't be able to travel to the usual area or will have to pay something like 50% more in fuel costs. Good news for Antarctica.
That is good news, of course it's from the UN so if you ignore it the most you will get is a sternly worded letter.
 
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To me it seems like you think you know more about subsidies than you actually do.
 
As an example of how subsidies can create profitable industry, take a look at the "Splash n Dash" biofuel subsidy that pays $9 Million a pop.

Bring in a tanker of foreign oil, add a few thousand gallons of bio-diesel (can be as little as a tenth of a percent of the total cargo), collect $9 Million, send the tanker to Europe or the UK to sell the fuel at a higher profit because the US is practically swimming in it thanks to the subsidy.

Then there's the farm subsidies where farmers are paid to not plant for a year to keep food prices high enough.

Let's not even look at the mess that is the ethanol subsidy.
 
One of those ecoterrorists was on Belgium TV last night, ( a dutch guy, forgot his name, Alexander? ) anyway, the only possible way he could have been more full of shit is if they literaly stuffed it down his throat until it poured out off his ears.....he even got upset when the presenter admitted to having tasted whalemeat :lol:

Whales = Animals
Animals = Food
 
I eat whale meat on a regular basis... Usually something like once a week. I'm a poor student and whale meat is cheap. It's also rather good. :)
 
Your instinct is probably wrong.



Also consider this; in 2007 the SS spent nearly $2.5M on their mission, that was one ship and a volunteer crew (or a crew that pays to board - which is illegal). That doesn't include Watson's salary of nearly $100k.

They don't spend as long down there, they don't travel as far and they don't pay tax.

Now think how much it might cost to send 4-7 ships down there, from much further away, with a full, paid crew.

Also consider how much it would cost the Australian defence force who are already fighting two wars, to stop bad things happening in the antartic
 
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