What are the best selling cars in your country?

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MacGuffin

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What you need to understand is that most Americans live in a house with some attached land (I believe it's currently a little more than half the population) and not in a flat or apartment. This means that they must maintain the house and land, and this means many many trips to the home improvement store or nursery for the supplies and things needed for maintaining the place. This also means that a trailer rapidly becomes more trouble than it's worth, and people resort to trucks and SUVs instead.

Also, due to this residential arrangement, people tend to have more hobbies that occur outdoors and they use a truck to move the supplies for those hobbies around. In addition, because we have space, we often take up hobbies like carpentry, furniture making, car restoration.... all things that work better with a truck in support.

I do understand all that but I can't get rid of the feeling that when it comes to trucks, Americans are very good in coming up with excuses to justify them, instead of thinking about alternatives.

I don't doubt that you think a pickup truck is a practical car. Well, it is but only when you need its full capacity. And how often to you need that? Be honest. It would be interesting to know if someone ever made the effort to come up with a kind of weight ratio between car and driver to compare different countries. I assume the Italians would be last and the USA first then :lol:

We also have people here who live in the countryside. Actually I'm living in one of the less populated areas of Germany, with many single and remote farms. The farmers here also need to go anywhere by car and I'm sure that the basic demands between German farmers and American farmers are quite the same.

Yet no one - not a single farmer here - has a truck. They have 4x4's, SUV's or estate cars with a trailer (all diesel-powered of course). But no trucks. If you see a pickup truck once in a while here, they are only driven by city blokes who think it's cool or because it makes them feel like a cowboy or something.

How many of those trucks, which are sold in the USA, are driven by people who don't actually need them? I bet it's a huge percentage.

By the way: I have been to Dallas in the 1990's for a couple of weeks. When I think about cars in that time, there are two things coming to my mind: A frightening neglect of buckling up and truck beds full of Mexicans, riding into town :)
 
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Hiro11

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I do understand all that but I can't get rid of the feeling that when it comes to trucks, Americans are very good in coming up with excuses to justify them, instead of thinking about alternatives.

I don't doubt that you think a pickup truck is a practical car. Well, it is but only when you need its full capacity. And how often to you need that? Be honest. It would be interesting to know if someone ever made the effort to come up with a kind of weight ratio between car and driver to compare different countries. I assume the Italians would be last and the USA first then :lol:
I completely agree with you and I'm American. I see people here in Chicago commuting alone in F-250s. It's just stupid. It is, however, a free country. ;) Not saying that Germany isn't, just that who am I to judge?

We also have people here who live in the countryside. Actually I'm living in one of the less populated areas of Germany, with many single and remote farms. The farmers here also need to go anywhere by car and I'm sure that the basic demands between German farmers and American farmers are quite the same.
Maybe, but I'll bet there's a significant scale difference between, say, an average Iowa corn farm and Black Forest dairy farm... a canoe-compared-to-ocean-liner scale difference. I don't think their needs will be as similar as you seem to think.

How many of those trucks, which are sold in the USA, are driven by people who don't actually need them? I bet it's a huge percentage.
Yeah, but a lot (I'd say more than 60%) of pick-ups are sold to people that do actually need them. As a comparison, American Pick-up= European White Van. It's what your average plumber/construction worker/painter/locksmith uses day-to-day here.

By the way: I have been to Dallas in the 1990's for a couple of weeks.
This obviously makes you an expert on America! :p
 

jaanjalgratas

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Estonia, 2007

1.Honda CR-V (1479)
2.Honda Civic (1057)
3.Toyota Corolla (1024)
4.Mazda 6 (981)
5.Toyota Avensis (944)
6.Citroen Berlingo (864)
7.Ford Focus (805)
8.Skoda Octavia (728)
9.Toyota Land Cruiser 120 (587)
10.Mazda 3 (548)
11.Hyundai Getz (542)
12.Toyota Auris (522)
13.Citroen C4 (499)
14.Volkswagen Golf (485)
15.Toyota Rav4 (400)
 

anti-net

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Not really. Please tell us what other vehicle you can back OR top load with farming supplies, dirt, an engine on a pallet, home appliances, half that stupid antiques store your spouse made you stop in at, motorcycles, or 4' x 8' pieces of plywood WITHOUT having stuff hanging out the back.

Also, are you aware that pickups can be had desperately cheap (and that this was the case even in economic boom times)? You can get a full sized US pickup in the US for $9995 NEW if you time it right and are an enlightened and careful shopper. That's cheaper than pretty much any car from the same maker.

What amuses me is Britain's fascination with truly tiny and useless cars like the G-Wiz. :D

I get why Americans like pickups, I just can't get excited about them like some people on here do - Its like getting excited about a Transit (note: The Transit has out-sold the most popular car year on year for as long as I can remeber)

As for the Giz-Jizz as I now like to call it, I've never seen one outside London, its a London thing, there not like us, Londeners are...unique. I like small cars like the Clio, Aygo, Lupo (its cute!) because they handle like go-karts, its just good fun in a multi-story car park to drive it like you stole it :D, Plus there cheap, easy to find a parking space to fit it in. The new bred of small cars like the new Twingo, Mini and 500 also have very nice chassis they make them great little cars on B-Roads - and we like that. Remember this is the country that gave you the great British roadster (Trimuphs, MGs etc. etc MX5 is influenced by all of them), not much power, but handles great.
 

Lupin_IV

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But it was an American's idea to put a ridiculous amount of power into a British roadster.
carroll_shelby2.jpg
 

anti-net

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^ True, which is the wonder of the "special" relationship :)
 

JakeRadden

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All the better to pull the trailer-full-of-gardening-supplies!
 

MacGuffin

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This obviously makes you an expert on America! :p

Of course! Americans tour across Europe in one week and think they are experts on Europe! :p
 

Meio

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Not really. Please tell us what other vehicle you can back OR top load with farming supplies, dirt, an engine on a pallet, home appliances, half that stupid antiques store your spouse made you stop in at, motorcycles, or 4' x 8' pieces of plywood WITHOUT having stuff hanging out the back.

A cab-over pickup? A dropside? You're missing the fact that I was making a point about American style pickups not a vehicle with a pickup arrangement cargo space.

Also, are you aware that pickups can be had desperately cheap (and that this was the case even in economic boom times)? You can get a full sized US pickup in the US for $9995 NEW if you time it right and are an enlightened and careful shopper. That's cheaper than pretty much any car from the same maker.

Economies of scale as much as anything else. Another interesting feature of the USA's relationship to the pickup.


Maybe, but I'll bet there's a significant scale difference between, say, an average Iowa corn farm and Black Forest dairy farm... a canoe-compared-to-ocean-liner scale difference. I don't think their needs will be as similar as you seem to think.

Oh, farmer's over here will often have a 4x4 pickup or van (a friend of mines' grandad had a 90 hard top on his dairy farm) as a farm runabout, a town runabout, and various specialist heavy vehicles, what do they do in Iowa?

Yeah, but a lot (I'd say more than 60%) of pick-ups are sold to people that do actually need them. As a comparison, American Pick-up= European White Van. It's what your average plumber/construction worker/painter/locksmith uses day-to-day here.

But the vans and dropsides and stuff are not included in the passenger vehicle lists because we have a different relationship with our commercial vehicles.

I get why Americans like pickups, I just can't get excited about them like some people on here do - Its like getting excited about a Transit (note: The Transit has out-sold the most popular car year on year for as long as I can remeber)

See

But it was an American's idea to put a ridiculous amount of power into a British roadster.
carroll_shelby2.jpg

What, "Please build me a car that will accept a V8, yours CS."? Brilliant.
 

Spectre

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Ah, but I think the F-series truck that's listed there is the "little" one, the F-150 and the F-250LD. The F-250HD and F-350 are counted as commercial trucks, though they do not have to be licensed as same. That's what you're not getting. F-150s are bought and used as both run-abouts and as light commercial vehicles. They're also the sturdiest thing one can buy for the money.

(I wouldn't expect a Brit to get "sturdy". Even my Jaguars don't *quite* get that. The rest of your auto industry sure didn't, either.)

FYI, the cheapest cabover is about $45,000, and dropsides were a commercial failure in the US because they don't do anything a regular truck doesn't do except add complexity.

Oh, farmer's over here will often have a 4x4 pickup or van (a friend of mines' grandad had a 90 hard top on his dairy farm) as a farm runabout, a town runabout, and various specialist heavy vehicles, what do they do in Iowa?

Usually they use the truck on the farm and to go to town. Amazingly, it's cheaper and the fact that they use ONE vehicle instead of two means that less pollution enters the atmosphere. (Also helps that agro diesel isn't taxed.)

I do understand all that but I can't get rid of the feeling that when it comes to trucks, Americans are very good in coming up with excuses to justify them, instead of thinking about alternatives.

I don't doubt that you think a pickup truck is a practical car. Well, it is but only when you need its full capacity. And how often to you need that? Be honest. It would be interesting to know if someone ever made the effort to come up with a kind of weight ratio between car and driver to compare different countries. I assume the Italians would be last and the USA first then :lol:

We also have people here who live in the countryside. Actually I'm living in one of the less populated areas of Germany, with many single and remote farms. The farmers here also need to go anywhere by car and I'm sure that the basic demands between German farmers and American farmers are quite the same.

Yet no one - not a single farmer here - has a truck. They have 4x4's, SUV's or estate cars with a trailer (all diesel-powered of course). But no trucks. If you see a pickup truck once in a while here, they are only driven by city blokes who think it's cool or because it makes them feel like a cowboy or something.

How many of those sedanss, which are sold in USA, are driven by people who don't actually need them? I bet it's a huge percentage.

By the way: I have been to Dallas in the 1990's for a couple of weeks. When I think about cars in that time, there are two things coming to my mind: A frightening neglect of buckling up and truck beds full of Mexicans, riding into town :)


Hm, let's turn that around and send it back to you with a slightly different spin.

"I do understand all that but I can't get rid of the feeling that when it comes to luxury sedans, Germans are very good in coming up with excuses to justify them, instead of thinking about alternatives.

"I don't doubt that you think a luxury sedan is a practical cargo and people carrier. Well, it is but only when you need its full capacity. And how often to you need that? Be honest. It would be interesting to know if someone ever made the effort to come up with a kind of weight ratio between car and driver to compare different countries. I assume the Italians would be last and the Germans first then :lol:

(psst - AFP and the BBC says that more Germans are overweight, by percentage of population, than Americans. And you're MORE overweight, on average, than the average overweight American. In fact, the Germans are the fattest people in Europe: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,478303,00.html)

"We also have people here who live in the city. Actually I'm living in one of the more populated areas of Dallas, with many apartments. The people here also need to go anywhere by car and I'm sure that the basic demands between German city-dwellers and American city-dwellers are quite the same.

"Yet few here have a German luxury sedan. They have 4x4's, SUV's or maybe a mid-size sedan (all gasoline powered of course). But no German luxury sedans. If you see a German luxury sedan once in a while here, they are only driven by stockbrokers who think it's cool or because it makes them feel like rich oil sheik or something.

"How many of those luxury sedans, which are sold in Germany, are driven by people who don't actually need them and could get by with a two-seater or motorcycle? I bet it's a huge percentage."

-snip-

Do you begin to see the absurdity of your logic here? You ask how often we use the full capacity of our trucks; I ask how often you see a full 7 series or S-class. You say people should consider alternatives to the wasteful truck, I say you should consider alternatives to the wasteful German luxury sedan.

Physician, heal thyself.

By the way: I have been to Dallas in the 1990's for a couple of weeks. When I think about cars in that time, there are two things coming to my mind: A frightening neglect of buckling up and truck beds full of Mexicans, riding into town :)

We did make the seatbelt law mandatory in the 90s, and most people always have buckled up. You won't get any arguments from me on how much of a joke our licensing system is.


Remember this is the country that gave you the great British roadster (Trimuphs, MGs etc. etc MX5 is influenced by all of them), not much power, but handles great.


You also gave us Lucas electrics and British Leyland build 'qwalitee'. We're even. :D

Of course! Americans tour across Europe in one week and think they are experts on Europe! :p

How about almost six months in Europe off and on in the last decade, relatives that live in London (that unfortunately send me many media stories and do nothing but complain in emails), and a few laps of the Ring in the late 90s on a rented Fireblade? :D

What, "Please build me a car that will accept a V8, yours CS."? Brilliant.

Wow. You really are clueless about car history. Psst - the car predates Shelby's involvement, not the other way around. The Cobra is what happens when you stick an enormous V8 in a tiny AC Ace.
 
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Meio

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(I wouldn't expect a Brit to get "sturdy". Even my Jaguars don't *quite* get that. The rest of your auto industry sure didn't, either.)

You can stop with the flaming, I'm just saying that the fact that the US top sellers list is dominated by what other countries would consider to be a commercial (and not passenger) vehicle demonstrates the strange relationship the USA has with the pickup truck.

FYI, the cheapest cabover is about $45,000, and dropsides were a commercial failure in the US because they don't do anything a regular truck doesn't do except add complexity.

I was merely suggesting that no cab-overs or drop-sides would have been counted as passenger vehicles despite being the same type of vehicle as an "American style" pickup in terms of capability, maybe I'm wrong.

How does a dropside add complexity?

Usually they use the truck on the farm and to go to town. Amazingly, it's cheaper and the fact that they use ONE vehicle instead of two means that less pollution enters the atmosphere. (Also helps that agro diesel isn't taxed.)

Many smallholders might do the same if the wife can't drive, but otherwise they are likely to keep a runabout.

But whatever, seems that there is a lot of defensiveness flying around in response to me suggesting that Swedes buy Volvos.
 

Hidden_Hunter

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For our list I'm not sure it includes the derivitive utes and luxo barge versions (I'd assume not)

07veutecolourrange.jpg
 

Meio

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Wow. You really are clueless about car history. Psst - the car predates Shelby's involvement, not the other way around. The Cobra is what happens when you stick an enormous V8 in a tiny AC Ace.

So Shelby didn't write to AC and ask them if they could provide him with a car that would accept a V8? AC didn't make further modifications to the Ford Zephyr engined Ace to accept the Ford V8 Shelby had sourced?

Before you cast aspersions check your facts.
 

VillageIdiot

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Wikipedia said:
Like many British specialist manufacturers, AC Cars had been using the smooth, refined Bristol straight-6 engine in its small-volume production, including its AC Ace 2-seater roadster. The engine was a pre-World War II design of BMW which by the 60s the company knew was considered dated. Bristol decided in 1961 to cease production of its engine and instead to use Chrysler 313cid (5.1 L) V8 engines. Although untrue, it is commonly believed that AC was left without a future source of power and that American ex-racing driver Carroll Shelby saved the company from bankruptcy. AC started using the 2.6 liter Ford Zephyr in all of its cars. Shelby, in September 1961 airmailed AC a letter asking them if they would build him a car modified to accept a V8 engine. Shelby had previous experience with Anglo-American hybrids, having raced an Allard. He first went to Chevrolet to see if they would provide him with engines, but not wanting to add competition to the Corvette they said no. Ford however, wanted a car that could compete with the Corvette and they happened to have a brand new thin wall small block engine which could be used in this endeavor.

meio wins
 

Spectre

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I type corrected. But I'm going to have to refer this to one of my clients, he'll get a kick out of this.

Why?

Because Michael Shelby (and his company), son of Carroll Shelby, is one of my clients. He'll enjoy watching me make a fool of myself over his father's cars. :D
 

Meio

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I type corrected. But I'm going to have to refer this to one of my clients, he'll get a kick out of this.

Why?

Because Michael Shelby (and his company), son of Carroll Shelby, is one of my clients. He'll enjoy watching me make a fool of myself over his father's cars. :D

Remember too that Shelby was possibly influenced by the Cadillac V8 powered Allard J2 he raced in 1952.
 

MacGuffin

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Hm, let's turn that around and send it back to you with a slightly different spin.

"I do understand all that but I can't get rid of the feeling that when it comes to luxury sedans, Germans are very good in coming up with excuses to justify them, instead of thinking about alternatives."

Hmmm... yeah, well... there is a fundamental difference, though: Luxury sedans aren't on top of our sales lists.

(psst - AFP and the BBC says that more Germans are overweight, by percentage of population, than Americans. And you're MORE overweight, on average, than the average overweight American. In fact, the Germans are the fattest people in Europe: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,478303,00.html)

Thanks for bringing the attention to that article. If I may quote from it: Vojtech Hainer, president of IASO's European section, said Germans had not yet reached US levels of obesity. "Of all industrial states the US is the country with the highest proportion of obese people," he told SPIEGEL ONLINE.

I never saw someone pouring sugar into his cola here so far...

Do you begin to see the absurdity of your logic here? You ask how often we use the full capacity of our trucks; I ask how often you see a full 7 series or S-class.

You compare sales figures of about 19.000 per year (for 7-series and S-class) in Germany with the sales figures of pickup trucks in the USA? That really is absurd, I'll give you that :mrgreen:

You say people should consider alternatives to the wasteful truck, I say you should consider alternatives to the wasteful German luxury sedan.

Physician, heal thyself.

How about you studying my start topic on the first page again and than take into consideration that about half of the cars you see listed there, are clean, modern diesels that do between 35 and 70 miles to the gallon?
 
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