What is the point of a 2 door SUV?

Spectre

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That may be the case in Texas, Spectre, but for most of the US outside of California and the southern states don't get 2WD models. I didn't even know that the Grand Cherokee was available in RWD only until some idiot from California drove one on bald tires up to a local ski resort and then couldn't get our of his parking spot when a bit of snow rolled in. He asked me to tow him out of his spot and then drag him over to the road - I refused because the road was in bad shape and marked "4x4/Chains Required" and he would have killed himself or someone else.

Up here where snow is more common the vast majority of vehicles that are build with AWD or 4WD are sold as such. Even small SUVs, like RAV4s, are almost exclusively AWD up here.
Maybe up there, you only see the 4x4 versions, but the majority of Explorers sold were 2WD. Wander on down to the Midwest or South sometime - lots of SUVs, most aren't 4WD. And as an ex-Commiefornian, you should have noticed that most of them weren't 4x4 out there. Look through the Craigslist sites for most major US cities and you'll find the Explorers are majority 2WD. I don't remember seeing any article talking about how the Jeeps were split, production wise, but there are quite a few 2WD XJ Cherokees and ZJ Grand Cherokees running around. Not just here in Texas, either.

Also, starting with the third-gen 4Runner, 2WD sales outnumbered 4WD.
 
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Blind_Io

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Honestly, there weren't that many older SUVs in my area, they were too thirsty for people to fuel. If someone could afford the fuel they would usually buy a new vehicle.

I know that the RWD models were more common in the south and on the coasts, I was just saying that it depends greatly where you are. Here in Salt Lake, you can't even buy a RWD Audi and Subaru actually saw sales growth here during the economic slump.
 

Spectre

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Honestly, there weren't that many older SUVs in my area, they were too thirsty for people to fuel. If someone could afford the fuel they would usually buy a new vehicle.

I know that the RWD models were more common in the south and on the coasts, I was just saying that it depends greatly where you are. Here in Salt Lake, you can't even buy a RWD Audi and Subaru actually saw sales growth here during the economic slump.
I wasn't talking about regionally, just in absolute numbers - as the poster had asked why people didn't seem to buy 2WD SUVs. The answer is, they are, he just wasn't paying attention; especially in his area, which he lists as 'Capital City, California."
 

shad_68

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Here in Salt Lake, you can't even buy a RWD Audi and Subaru actually saw sales growth here during the economic slump.
Excluding racing cars, I can't think of any place where you can do that. :lol:
 

Spectre

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With many SUVs, you have to know that you're looking for to tell whether it's 2WD or 4WD.

Let's run a little experiment. Here's pics of my current Pathfinder and the one that preceded it - pictures taken shortly after I got each one, so they were as I'd bought them.





Are they both 4WD? Is one 2WD and one 4WD? Explain your reasoning. And yes, there IS enough visual information to tell.

Edit: And before you go looking at the Post Your Car threads, I never said what the gray one was. The red one is in fact 4WD - but I'm famous for playing trick questions, so don't jump to conclusions from that. :mrgreen:
 
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Blind_Io

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Top is RWD, bottom is 4WD.

Reason: Locking hubs.
 

Spectre

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Could be. Or the black hub center caps might be intact on one and not on the other. There's one absolute tell for 4WD on a WD21 Pathfinder.

Edit: Here, I'll even give you a larger picture to look at. They're IFS on the 4x4s, so you won't be seeing a stick axle there in either case. Plus the front differential is carried high; don't bother looking for it. Here's a larger one of the 90, too. The gray one is a 93 and they changed hub designs around 1990. And my 90 doesn't have manual locking hubs, that's a sticker that says "automatic" on the end there. Looks like a manual hub, doesn't it?
 
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prizrak

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For me, if I was in the CUV market (I know, I know, but I prob. would never off road despite how cool it sounds...hence CUV for me if i went that route) I'd have to get a AWD model. For me it would justify going that route to begin with. NOT getting one with AWD sound's foolish...then again I live in the northeast soo...:p
Most people don't buy CUVs for their "off roading" capability, they buy them for higher seating position and perceived cargo space** FWD is the cheaper option and is usually better on fuel. Also keep in mind that pretty much all AWD CUVs are either FWD or RWD with electronically controlled center diff that engages the other wheels. I know my friend's older RAV4 is RWD 90% of the time and only uses the fronts when it gets in trouble.

**Funny story, when I was moving into my own place with my oldest friend we went to Costco (wearhouse type store) with his parents in their Murano. We filled the entire "trunk" of the Murano with stuff. As we drove up to his parents house in our own cars we had to transfer the stuff. Everything that fit into that Murano went into my trunk. The ONLY item that did not fit was a 24 pack of bottled water that I ended up throwing on the back sit.
 

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I like to remind my mom that my compact rice rocket seems a lot more practical than her SRX. :lol:

I think I have more space for stuff. The backseat seems roomier and the trunk looks a LOT roomier--especially if you just go by the space under her cargo cover. Maybe I need to look up the measurements sometime? There's not even too much extra space above the cargo area since the roof's all slopey (as are a lot of CUVs now, presumably to distance them away from the lolbox shape of SUVs).

More space, fewer "features" to break*, actually having a spare tire that came standard with the car instead of "well, you can use OnStar for that"...haha.

CUVs--for the most part--aren't really meant for "car people," much less off-roaders, haulers of lots of stuff, or any serious business. They're comfy cozy couches-on-wheels that sit up high for "better visibility." They're meant to get people from point A to point B comfortably, and they do that quite well.

I still think Cadillac should stick an OMG HUGE ENGINE in the SRX and try to make Cayenne owners poo themselves. :D Then I might like it more. Until then, though, I still stand by my "this really wasn't made for people who care too much about driving." I think I even saw that Cadillac had discontinued the more powerful engine that they had as an option 'cause it didn't sell. I think that means I'm not in their target audience. Sad times.

*Fine, fine, the heated seats are win, but I'm not sure I'd want them. I just like leaving them on to surprise/annoy whoever sits there after me. And yes, I realize that the rest of the universe likes more toys to play with than me, too. So, again, these Puffalumps are not the droids Caddy is looking for. Le sigh.
 
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prizrak

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*Fine, fine, the heated seats are win, but I'm not sure I'd want them. I just like leaving them on to surprise/annoy whoever sits there after me. And yes, I realize that the rest of the universe likes more toys to play with than me, too. So, again, these Puffalumps are not the droids Caddy is looking for. Le sigh.
Well you are in TX where it doesn't get THAT cold, they are nice when getting in a car when its 20 out and its been sitting outside all day since they warm up way faster than the rest of the car.
 

ninjacoco

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Well you are in TX where it doesn't get THAT cold, they are nice when getting in a car when its 20 out and its been sitting outside all day since they warm up way faster than the rest of the car.
I had a backache one day and they worked great for that, too. :)

My car heater works better than my house one at the moment. If I'm cold, I use it for warmth, haha.
 

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I wasn't talking about regionally, just in absolute numbers - as the poster had asked why people didn't seem to buy 2WD SUVs. The answer is, they are, he just wasn't paying attention; especially in his area, which he lists as 'Capital City, California."
And all those 2WD Explorers - how many are purchased by fleets (Such as, say, Progressive Insurance) and how many are bought by the general public?
 

Spectre

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Progressive generally buys Escapes, not Explorers. Explorers were generally not bought by fleets; when Progressive was buying Explorers, they bought Explorer 2 doors (which few other people did), but they switched to Escapes when they released the second gen of that 'truck.'

Most of the reason fleets didn't buy Explorers was because they were too expensive and not what fleets needed.
 
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Rossco

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With many SUVs, you have to know that you're looking for to tell whether it's 2WD or 4WD.

Let's run a little experiment. Here's pics of my current Pathfinder and the one that preceded it - pictures taken shortly after I got each one, so they were as I'd bought them.





Are they both 4WD? Is one 2WD and one 4WD? Explain your reasoning. And yes, there IS enough visual information to tell.

Edit: And before you go looking at the Post Your Car threads, I never said what the gray one was. The red one is in fact 4WD - but I'm famous for playing trick questions, so don't jump to conclusions from that. :mrgreen:
Ok I'll bite
The red Pathfinder is a 4x4. You can tell this because the front bumper is shorter(better ground clearance), and is designed to accommodate the optional factory grille guard. Not to mention the absence of a roof rack on the grey one.
 
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Spectre

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Ok I'll bite
The red Pathfinder is a 4x4. You can tell this because the front bumper is shorter(better ground clearance), and is designed to accommodate the optional factory grille guard. Not to mention the absence of a roof rack on the grey one.
Roof racks could be had on either type and are indicative of trim level not drive type; the bumpers were not a 4x4 v. 4x2 thing but a year thing - after 92 or so the fog lights moved from an optional pendant mount below the bumper to a mount integrated into the bumpers. A different grille guard was designed for the 93-95 trucks. I have already said that the red one is a 4x4 - but what is the gray one?

I will further say that there is no visual difference in ride height or stance between the base 4x4 and 4x2 versions of the WD21.
 
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Rossco

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I have already said that the red one is a 4x4 - but what is the gray one?
.
Well considering that the grey one broke, I'm gonna assume it's now NWD, No-Wheel-Drive. :p
 

Spectre

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Well considering that the grey one broke, I'm gonna assume it's now NWD, No-Wheel-Drive. :p
Heh - not exactly. The college student who purchased it had somehow managed to break the frame of his WD21; he just swapped the entire drivetrain over, thus resolving the 'failed engine' problem.

Edit: I'll wait a couple more hours then post the answer. I think my point is made about not knowing which SUVs are 2WD or 4WD unless you know what you're looking for/at, though - and that, if you look at them, you will find that most SUVs ended up being sold as 2WD, at least in the US.

By the way, looking at the front wheel hubs is not positive identification. Entirely aside from whether the sticker came off or not, some of the stock wheels almost completely cover the hubs so you can't tell what's under there. This IS a 4x4 with the hub stickers intact on stock 'Lego' wheels, but it could as easily be a 2WD someone slapped the stickers on, or the stickers could fall off. You can't see which it is with these wheels on.
 
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Shentar

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The grey one is a 4x4. I say this because of the fender flares. D21s had fender flares as 4x4s, but not as 4x2s unless someone added them. Its rare that they did. Its also more likely that someone with a 4x4 would take them off, as opposed to someone with a 4x2 adding them.

I'd say the red one is a 4x2.

There wasn't much difference in 4x2 and 4x4 in the D21 (or WD21). Stickers and flares mostly. In the truck, the 4x4 was a little higher. I think the wheels and tires were also wider, but that could be negated by options.

This thread makes me miss my 94 Hardbody. I always wanted a 2-door WD21 Pathfinder. I might look into one. I go camping a descent amount at the racetrack, and I do hate putting up a tent. Might be worth it. Sleeping bad in the back of the Pathfinder.... Miata v Pathfinder.. hmmm...Plus with a Miata and a G35 Coupe, I can't carry crap so a little utility would be nice.
 
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