What route should I go with my S2000?

djdorifto

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Hey guys, I'm doing something big to my S2000 and I'm still torn on what route I should go with. Right now its either keeping it NA or going FI route...

If I go NA route I will be going first with ITB's and later down the road a stroker kit (waiting to hear how the 2.7L kit does). As some of you know the ITB's on a S2000 is really for mid-range power. Not a overall gain. Gains on top would only be like 10-15hp, but mid-range would be 40+hp from like 5000 to 7000 grand. Stroker kit will give it better gains as it will use the air flow much better. Plus 2.5L right now is making around 275+hp NA with stock head.

Now, if I go FI route, it would be either SC or turbo. Only reason why I'd go turbo would be that I can easily up the boost and gain much more than the SC. But I'd go with SC because its really reliable and its basically plug-in and go. Either setup i'll be looking at 300-310 rwhp.


I'm not looking at a monster powerhouse yet. As I'm still in school, so being reliable would be something I'm looking for. But either route I go still be risks, just some more than others. Price is something I'll be worried about, but I'd like to do it right the first time, so it be expensive whatever route I go hehe.

what would you guys go with?
 

Ford Prefect

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my alternative: get a good suspension and some decent tires, and spend the rest of your money taking professional driving lessons... after that no little kid with his turboed megaengine will ever be able to keep up with you on a proper road...

just my 2 cents...
 

djdorifto

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Already got suspension covered as I'm getting F/R sway bars and a x-brace... I've already taken driving lessons and been out on the track. Before the S2000 I had a Turbo 240sx, at 15psi. So I'm not a punk kid at 18years old wanting to make my car faster...

I was going with weight reduction, but I don't want to gut the car nor take off the soft up just yet. I mean I bought the car because its a drop top... Plus the hardtop is expensive because of the extra parts I need, do to mine being a 2000 year.
 

thedguy

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Aren't those lightweight hard tops $3k plus? I know the Amuse and mugen CF parts are quite expensive. Are the factory soft tops automatic, or manual?

Any links on the various stroker kits on these cars? I didn't know anyone was going beyond the 2.2's with 'em. And won't they kill the high revving nature of the motor?

My vote is for the ITB's, if they seriously improve the mid-range that much they sound like a great way to make the car better. Added bonus is they look good. Do any of the SC's that don't require opening up the motor do anything for the bottom end/mid-range? I've only seen centrifugal SC's bolted on to the F20/F22c's.
 

The_Finn

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Do any of the SC's that don't require opening up the motor do anything for the bottom end/mid-range? I've only seen centrifugal SC's bolted on to the F20/F22c's.
unless i am greatly mistaken just like with a turbo it's all a matter of proper sizing of both the pulley and the compressor.

frankly since i am a fan of high revving engines i would got for the ITB setup and a bunch of toda parts instead of a stroker kit but thats just me.
 

Jay

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I am interested in this too, since I will be getting an S2000 in a year. Myself? You need to think what makes an S2000 an...S2000. It is light and nimble. It does not rely so much on engine as it does the balance of power and handling.

To put it bluntly, an excess of power will ruin everything that is the spirit of the car. Stop thinking like a Typical American. You are not an engineer. The good people at Honda who designed this engine, who probably put 1000's of hours testing so you can enjoy 240 HP out of a mere 2 liters are. They made it so you can enjoy the overall experience of having all that power with a chassis that is perfectly matched to the engine output. Am I right or not?

LEAVE THE FUCKING ENGINE ALONE.

Sure, you have read about stroker engines and centrifugal superchargers, and how great they are...at least when initially done. How about...10,000 miles down the road? Again, are you an engineer from Honda? How about the people who made the high horse parts?

I am just in the firm belief that this engine should just be left alone. On the flip side, my car is a 2004 Pontiac Sunfire, 2.2 liter, 140 horsepower, all aluminum. For about, oh, $5000 USD I make it 400 HP easily, and will be reliable for many many miles.

Why?

Because the basic engine I have is just that, basic. Like the SBC 350, it can take alot of abuse because power wise, it is just starting out with the basic 140. YOUR ENGINE, on the other hand, has been tweaked and finessed. How much more can you reliably get out of it before it explodes?

And remember, because I can predict your rebuttal, the internet is a great source of disinformation; the guy you read about on www.stupidfasthondasyo.com who is pulling 400 HP is probably pulling your leg, and hasnt really put on any miles to say that yes, this is the best route to go.

Not that you are going to listen to one thing I said, but with this particular car, concentrate on its weight and its handling.
 

Jay

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unless i am greatly mistaken just like with a turbo it's all a matter of proper sizing of both the pulley and the compressor.

frankly since i am a fan of high revving engines i would got for the ITB setup and a bunch of toda parts instead of a stroker kit but thats just me.
Now see, you originally had typed "raise the compression" and instead typed "bunch of toda parts". Proving that the interweb is an excellent source of bad information and suggestions.
 

thedguy

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Now see, you originally had typed "raise the compression" and instead typed "bunch of toda parts". Proving that the interweb is an excellent source of bad information and suggestions.
I still say he should go with the ITB's (assuming what he says is true about the mid range improvements), but "leaving the ____ engine alone" shouldn't be an option just because the honda engineers put a shit load of time into it. That is a common argument I hear on various IMPORT forums and I hate it. There are always improvements that can be made, to a high production engine. The F2*C is the kind of engine you send to a proper engine builder to get more power (or more importantly, low and mid range torque) out of as apposed to doing the usual BS back yard engineering is all.
 
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Top Geek

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An S2000 engine is highly tweaked and has a very high compression ratio. Putting a blower on it will probably cause it to explode. You should really keep it to passive modifications: low-restriction exhaust, weight stripping, lower weight parts, etc.
 

targa_997

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I'd go for a cold air intake, exhaust, semi-slicks and a shorter final drive. Maybe a CF hood and remove the AC. Is it possible to remove the VTEC and put a racing camshaft + ECU remap?

BTW which roads are you driving in Brevard to need such handling (x-brace, sway bars)?
 

djdorifto

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Lots of replies... let me go down and reply to each person...

thedguy : yeah, the hardtops are pretty expensive. Soft top are automatics. Here in the states I believe we started with the 2.2L and then with the 2.5L's. As of right now they are rev'ing still to 9k. Some of the race cars are doing 10800 revs from the company that does the stroker kits.

As of right now theres only two SC's, one from Vortech and the other is Comptech. None of them need internals done. If you go 9psi and higher you can put a thicker headgasket and injectors, but thats it. Oh and a EMS. Most reliable FI you can go with, as there are dozens of people with 20k,40k,60k, even 100k with their SC's and nothing wrong with the engine.


teletubby-warrior : yeah, i'll go going final gears, but most likely 4.57's due to being less agressive then 4.77's. But since i'm not on the highway everyday I'll be considering them.


The_Finn : as of right now, Toda parts for the money isn't worth it. Gains isn't great if you don't put all of their stuff (stroker, ITB's, cams, camshafts, valve springs, exhaust, etc...)


jayhawk : I know the S2000 what makes it... I've had mine for 3 years now. Driven a few road courses already and the only grip about the car is midrange power when coming out of corners. Same complaint my friend had when he auto-x. He did ITB's and he loves his car now.

I don't think giving the car 70-100hp more is a excess of power. The car does weight in at 2800+ lbs. Light it isn't, but nimble it is. I think its a great combo, but I think it isn't perfectly matched. Honda forged their internals, so they had in mind of boosting the car or for the aftermarket to take over. That or because with the close realtionship they have with Comptech they wanted to see what they can do with it. And if you get Comptech and have the honda dealership install it, it doesn't void your warranty.

Well the 2.2L is pretty much a stroker kit and their living pretty long. So far there are a few people with 2.5L kits as it is pretty expensive to stay NA with just the same money go with a turbo. So far no problems from the owners.

Well, heres another question for you, what about Mugen with their stroker kit? Mugen is real close with Honda Japan. So what about that? What about Spoon? If you take two S2000's... leave one stock and the other one with the Spoon engine. The Spoon engine will last longer because it is balanced and blueprinted by them. Honda can do only so much to it before they lose money on each car they sell.

The magic where it all comes from is the head work. Thats why a lot of compaines can't just make cams and camshafts like they do with other honda engines. They are made just perfect.

Please don't write me off as some punk kid that just wants to go fast with no knowledge of how it works. Age has nothing to do with the knowledge a person has with cars. I love this type of debate, which makes have threads like this more exciting.

I for one, will keep it the same, no gutting or stuff like that. Handling I've already got it covered.


Redliner : Exhaust i'm doing along with a header. If I go ITB then its just a bonus for already having it haha.


thedguy : I'll most likely go ITB's.

Heres the dyno from my friends ITB setup. If you look midrange he has 40+ rwhp and 35+ trq. He flats out from 8100 to 9000 because he's on stock header on exhaust. He's hoping to get upwards to 20hp with just header and exhaust.





But yeah, theres always room for improvement. If there wasn't then we would have all these great tuners with stroker kits, turbos, SC, NA tuning, etc...


epp_b : Nope, like I said above, theres already alot of owners with blowers that is very reliable. And no, no weight stripping since this isn't a total track car. Lower weight parts is something i'll be doing. With just a single exhaust i'll lose close to 20-30lbs.


targa_997 : cold air intake in florida isn't that great lol. Exhaust i'll be doing, tires yes when I'll do my road racing events. And final drive is something i'll do too.

CF hood is just for looks. You save like . something in weight. Remove AC in florida? holycrap, your insane.

The three setups I listed will be base. Nothing extreme as it will still be a Daily driver. So no racing camshafts, etc...

Reason for X-Brace and sway bars will be the road racing events I'll enter. As I got hooked on it last year.


Salar : If I'd go FI i'll maybe go SC... but if I'd get a nice beater car I'd go turbo.


thanks guys for all the replies... keep them coming!
 

BerserkerCatSplat

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Supercharger. One of the top AutoXers here in Calgary put a blower on his S2K and says it makes all the difference in the world coming out of the corners.

That being said, I'm not entirely certain how much money he's got into that engine. It was probably completely rebuilt to accommodate the FI.
 

targa_997

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targa_997 : cold air intake in florida isn't that great lol.
Right, I haven't been into tuning since I live in Florida (it could work well from last friday to today, and maybe few days last november and... that's it) :D


CF hood is just for looks. You save like . something in weight. The three setups I listed will be base. Nothing extreme as it will still be a Daily driver. So no racing camshafts, etc...
Sorry, I just love so much high-revving NA engines... And in that direction any weight gain is important, but a diet would probably help more. The CF components work well for a strong diet, accumulating insignificant weight gains can lead to a significant result, especially for a light car like the S2000. Few simple things can work like removing sunvisors, put a frameless mirror, remove the glovebox, put racing seats...

For your route, I've heard about SC operating at mid-high revs which can fit very well to S2000 and don't damage the engine since the boost is moderate. In addition it wouldn't change too much the personality of your car, compared to a turbo.


Remove AC in florida? holycrap, your insane.
Mine didn't work last summer, I survived. And it's a drop-top isn't it? But I know when it's raining and it's almost 100 F it sucks.


Reason for X-Brace and sway bars will be the road racing events I'll enter. As I got hooked on it last year.
I'm curious about where you're going racing, since I live in Melbourne too.
 
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