Whats with the french bashing in the US?

zenkidori

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budzi said:
I had the impression that the country modernised too fast, that mentalities do not follow
They seem very modern but they continue the old traditions.
exactly. Many of the older generation see the adoption of western culture as a dilution or almost a "soiling" of thier own. The younger generation do not share this view for the most part, sure there are groups of youths who would take the stance of those elders, but in general thier youth culture is very different. I have friends who've been to Japan or lived there and many times kids and young adults will come right up to them and ask about something western, be it music, cars, something in our pop culture, whatever, even give them rides in thier cars!

Anywhere you go there will be a group of people who are all about the "locals only" kind of thing, but in general you can have a great time as a westerner in Japan, I'm looking forward to living there for a while.

I should also mention this is if you aren't asian. Something a lot of people in western societies don't get is that asians aren't all united or the same, asians don't like other asians. Asians can group together and get along in western societies just fine sometimes, but being an asian from a different country in asia can be hard.
 

budzi

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zenkidori said:
I should also mention this is if you aren't asian. Something a lot of people in western societies don't get is that asians aren't all united or the same, asians don't like other asians. Asians can group together and get along in western societies just fine sometimes, but being an asian from a different country in asia can be hard.
That's right!

Korean people do not like Chinese and Japanese
European usually think that they are the same...
 

Hawaj23

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Well, first of all I'm glad that someone from France is acually active on this board!

I don't want you to think that I really hate French. No, my wife is having a wonderful time here, for instance. But I've (or it just my feeling) noticed that it doesn't matter how good you speak french, or how rich (or poor) you are, it's hard to assimilate here in France. In other words the French stick to themselves in terms of friendship and so on.

About English. I can understand that a woman at the till, working in Supermarche do not speak english, or a plummer for instance. But a scientist should and if during his education and career no one implied that he should, that's a deep flaw.

I'm not a French basher myself, but I can understand one..

About Japan, I forgot to put the smile at the end of that sentence..but still I've been living in Osaka for 6 months, and It was brilliant. OK It felt a bit strange when the lady of the house didn't participate in the dinner after making it for hours (but judging by my experience it only applies for older people) so in terms of gender equality you may be right. Anyway , the experence was great.

Cheers!
 

budzi

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No problem!

You have your opinion and I respect it. If you have a bad opinion about French, there is a reason.

You have to know that depending on the region, people behave differently with foreigners.

In East of France, foreigners are seen like invaders (due to WW2)
Where I live it is a little bit different.
In Britanny it is hard to be accepted, but when you are, it is at 100%

Many French do not want to speak English because they consider it as the language of US imperialism

I loved Korea, but I wouldn't have liked to live there for years!
 

hokiethang

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budzi said:
Many French do not want to speak English because they consider it as the language of US imperialism
See that's one of the things that has us Americans (notably me) baffled. The ability to speak English is important in today's society, especially for commerce. I personally don't understand why it's US imperialism, since English is actually from England, if anything it's the language of British imperialism.

I also don't really understand why people think that a language can be imperialist. Just because you speak english doesn't mean you have to buy nikes, eat at mcdonalds and shop at walmart. All I really ask is for basic English comprehension, not in replacement of the local language, just as a supplement.

I myself have basic understanding of spanish, and want to learn german and italian.
 

budzi

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I know it is not a intelligent behavior.
On the other hand it is good for me, as I speak English.

It is less and less true because young people have understand how important it is.
Now in many jobs in France, you have to speak English


On the other hand, US/UK people are hard with non-english speaking people.
You have a tendency to speak very fast, and we do not understand everything.

I myself improve my english by watching TG and 5G
 

geoff_a_pult

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budzi said:
On the other hand, US/UK people are hard with non-english speaking people.
You have a tendency to speak very fast, and we do not understand everything.
That is pretty much true of any native language speaker though. The Mexicans, for instance, that I have talked to speak at lightning pace. All you really have to ask some one to do is to slow down. Nobody takes offence from you not speaking with perfect fluency, it is probably just that people assume you speak better than you do, or don't want to insult you by "speaking down."
With media though, that can be a problem.
 

Z Draci

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budzi said:
zenkidori said:
I should also mention this is if you aren't asian. Something a lot of people in western societies don't get is that asians aren't all united or the same, asians don't like other asians. Asians can group together and get along in western societies just fine sometimes, but being an asian from a different country in asia can be hard.
That's right!

Korean people do not like Chinese and Japanese
European usually think that they are the same...
As a Japanese guy I can attest to that. My parents and grandparents really dislike foreigners. Their way of thinking is very similar to that of the German Nazis. It really makes me sick.

zenkidori nailed it on the dot when he explained the present situation in Japan. You can see a very clear line between the traditionalists and the "new" generation.

My dad was one who admired America. Against my mom's will he completed graduate school in the States and moved the entire family over here. There are many young Japanese people who love America, Europe, and the rest of Asia. The racists in Japan are the minority. It's the same in any country. These small groups give the entire country a bad name. Japanese people may seem rude and "racist" but it may just be that they are uncomfortable interacting with a foreigner.

Be careful of the bousouzoku and yakuza while in Japan! You hear of foreigners being beat to death every once in a while . . . So have a native show you around these dangerous areas!
 

budzi

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geoff_a_pult said:
budzi said:
On the other hand, US/UK people are hard with non-english speaking people.
You have a tendency to speak very fast, and we do not understand everything.
That is pretty much true of any native language speaker though. The Mexicans, for instance, that I have talked to speak at lightning pace. All you really have to ask some one to do is to slow down. Nobody takes offence from you not speaking with perfect fluency, it is probably just that people assume you speak better than you do, or don't want to insult you by "speaking down."
With media though, that can be a problem.
With media, that is normal.
I speak a good english, but when speaking with US/UK people, I sometimes wonder if they spoke fast on purpose.
Even when asked to slow done, they continue to speak fast.
On the other hand, it is a good way to improve my English!

Z Draci said:
As a Japanese guy I can attest to that. My parents and grandparents really dislike foreigners. Their way of thinking is very similar to that of the German Nazis. It really makes me sick.

zenkidori nailed it on the dot when he explained the present situation in Japan. You can see a very clear line between the traditionalists and the "new" generation.

My dad was one who admired America. Against my mom's will he completed graduate school in the States and moved the entire family over here. There are many young Japanese people who love America, Europe, and the rest of Asia. The racists in Japan are the minority. It's the same in any country. These small groups give the entire country a bad name. Japanese people may seem rude and "racist" but it may just be that they are uncomfortable interacting with a foreigner.

Be careful of the bousouzoku and yakuza while in Japan! You hear of foreigners being beat to death every once in a while . . . So have a native show you around these dangerous areas!
I have never heard of foreigners beaten to death in Japan!

When I was in Korea, a white guy like did not look Korean, and people were very cautious with me. At the moment I told them I was French, not American, they began to smile and to be very kind with me!

Racists are most of the time minority in countries and they behavior is also different.
For example, they are a lot of racist people in France but they are not violent. It is quite rare foreigners (from Africa) are killed or beaten (it happens). In Germany, racism is quite rare, but racist people are very violent.
 

triumph

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my 2 cents about this topic
I think it's mostly due to traditions and preconceived judgements from people who never went outside their country (and God are we French very homebody).
For example last year just before I left France to Germany some of my friends warned me that Germans were unfriendly and aloof(also none of them put a foot in Germany)I have to say I felt sad for my friends to have this way of thinking because that's not what your expecting from guys in their mid twenties (you can perhaps understand it from people who actually lived during the war ) and of course my stay in Germany was the opposite and I really enjoyed myself in Germany(in fact I'm going back in Germany this october).

Sure I'm French but thanks to my family I speak English , German and I've been learning Japanese for now 2 years (I read katakana and hiragana + few Kanjis ) I'm also beginning Spanish mostly because it's very easy for a french to learn it . I'm perhaps a bit unbiased because I've got family in Canada and friends in the US however each times I went there I never encountered problems with the people , in fact most of them were pleased to see a French guy making the effort to speak their language (even if it's not perfect) likewise I'm always pleased to speak French with foreigners who wants too.
I don't really care about the French relation with the world(have we still got one :mrgreen:) , were a bit special and not perfect that's true but who is?

As for the faults made by my country such as colonyzation or French tattling-collaboration during WWII or even the military campaign from Napoleon what can I say?
Every motherlands has got at some point a dark past of which she isn't particularly proud.

In fact the only think I'm proud of being is EUROPEAN ,personnaly this is a real achievement for Eu citizens.

I reckon to resolve this incomprehension we (not only us French) should be more open minded and go overseas just to see how it works outisde our frontiers.
that's also the reason why I registered to this forum , we're from different parts of the world ,and because of that I can actually see other people states of mind about cars and my GOD ARE YOU ALL WRONG!!!! :lol:
 

Top Gear Girl

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Theres also been a tradtion for the British to have a go at the French. This was mainly due to the recepton British people got when visiting France. Pretending not being able to speak English or pretening they couldn't understand your French.

However, in recent years the French have been really nice whenever I have visted them. They don't even bother to look inside your passports as you drive of the ferry. They just say "Ah Anglais, welcome to France" and smile and wave you on. Then the shops, cafes, etc they speak English to you and are very helpful.

In fact, visiting France is now quite a joy. Especally as, unlike the UK you can park alsmost anywhere you want for free and thier petrol (gas) is much cheaper, and most importantly, so is thier wine.

I think they have recently taken to being more European, so have become more firendly, as we are all part of the EU.

(Anglais is French for English)
 

VWKafer

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I think what Sabine said was....

"I do zat laptime in a fffaaannn"

Sooooo off topic, but just had to say something about the sudden reappearance of TGG.
 

transtek

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zenkidori said:
well moving there and not at least knowing basic words and phrases is about the dumbest thing ever. That's a huge reason a lot of people dislike Mexican immigrants in the US.
Strange you should mention this, because the great majority of Americans who come to live and/or work in Mexico, DO NOT make even the slightest effort to learn Spanish, and in-fact, live in American-only neighborhoods and only socialize with fellow Americans. When I arrived here, I was around Mexicans all the time, and didn't even know how to take a bus, but that way you learn a lot quicker and very rarely do I see or talk to any fellow Brits.

Going back to the French, and arisians especially, they can be very arrogant indeed, and even having learned French, and speaking French to them, they just turn round and say "I don't understand you", even though they do, but it's because they know from the accent that you are English!
That's just plain rudeness.
 

budzi

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transtek said:
Going back to the French, and arisians especially, they can be very arrogant indeed, and even having learned French, and speaking French to them, they just turn round and say "I don't understand you", even though they do, but it's because they know from the accent that you are English!
That's just plain rudeness.
That is a stupid behaviour I dislike.
When a foreigner speaks French with me I am glad he makes an effort to do so.
Be also aware that Parisians have a bad reputation in France
 

Dr. Woo

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Nobody is to blame.

But really...who DOESN'T bash the French? Even the French bash the French.
 

budzi

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Dr. Woo said:
But really...who DOESN'T bash the French? Even the French bash the French.
It is also a French tradition to bash themselves

Let me clarify, I am very happy to be French, even if I dislike many things in France
 

Jay

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transtek said:
Strange you should mention this, because the great majority of Americans who come to live and/or work in Mexico, DO NOT make even the slightest effort to learn Spanish, and in-fact, live in American-only neighborhoods and only socialize with fellow Americans.
Strange you should mention this, because the great majority of Mexicans who come to live and/or work in America, DO NOT make even the slightest effort to learn English, and in-fact, live in Mexican-only neighborhoods and only socialize with fellow Mexicans.
 

transtek

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jayhawk said:
transtek said:
Strange you should mention this, because the great majority of Americans who come to live and/or work in Mexico, DO NOT make even the slightest effort to learn Spanish, and in-fact, live in American-only neighborhoods and only socialize with fellow Americans.
Strange you should mention this, because the great majority of Mexicans who come to live and/or work in America, DO NOT make even the slightest effort to learn English, and in-fact, live in Mexican-only neighborhoods and only socialize with fellow Mexicans.
I don't doubt it for a minute!!! Just expressing my opinion that if you go to another country, you should learn their language and customs, and at least respect them, and that rule applies to everyone, irrespective of their country of origin!!!!
 

ishigakisensei

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^^Agreed. It is my responsibility to learn Japanese and to acclimate to their culture - not like that is hard though. My wife helps me a lot but it is still my job to take care of myself.

My parents recently read in their newspaper that some Mexican immigrant sued the state because he got his unemployment rejection letter in English - and he won! I got documents in Japanese all the time and not once ever thought of demanding them in English. I was in their country. Those who push for special treatment of Latinos fail to realize that they are making Spanish a ghetto language of the undesirables. This will not bode well as there will eventually be a "slave language".
 
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