Why do people like these?

2Billion

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European dieselpowered fail wheel drive hatchbacks: EVERYONE drives these , and everyone who drives one thinks their good cars....their not, their just not....their well made, well thougt out to appeal to the masses, but they are as far from the essence of a car as something can possibly be.....apart from beeing a boat.
They are engineerd to handle predictably, to make em drivable to all groups off people, even the ones whithout an interest in driving, to look bland enough to appeal to the same people, they are powered by something that has to be economical , not fun, and on a personal note I find em usualy WAY TO SMALL to fit into.....do the rest off you have limbs that bend the other way or something and your not telling me?

Ecoboxes......apart from everything else obviously wrong with em its the size thing , how? just how?
So, they're bad because they're designed to appeal to as many people and possible? Or is it because they get them safely to wherever they need to go?

While diesels do pretty much say you're a bit cheap, for people who are a bit cheap that's fine. Plus, generally these small hatchbacks - the good ones at least - are actually pretty enjoyable to drive - much moreso than a bigger car. Low weight and decent suspension design are an easy way to make a car fun, even if it's got FWD. If you don't need to tow anything (and most don't) they're efficient, reliable and very inexpensive to run. If you spec them properly, they're fun when you want too, what's the problem here?

As for size problems, I'm not a small person by any means (6" tall, not thin), and I've NEVER had difficulty fitting in a compact car. I suggest contacting the Guinness Book of Records, since if you can't comfortably sit in a Golf you might be the world's largest man.
 

Jay

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As for size problems, I'm not a small person by any means (6" tall, not thin), and I've NEVER had difficulty fitting in a compact car. I suggest contacting the Guinness Book of Records, since if you can't comfortably sit in a Golf you might be the world's largest man.
Too right. I know someone who is seven foot tall and owns a 2007 Golf GTI, with room to spare.
 

prizrak

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I'm gonna piss off Spectre and a few others but I never understood the appeal of Jags. Thy may be great cars when it comes to comfort/power/handling but I just cant get behind the looks.
 

Spectre

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That's just personal opinion there, you either like them or you don't. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.

I don't understand why anyone would buy a VAG 'bar of soap' sedan like the Jetta, Passat or A4, so we're even. :D I think I'd commit suicide if I had to look at that exterior every day. Plus IMHO, while the driving experience is usually good for whatever class it's in, it's not enough to overcome the generic exterior and terrible electrics.
 
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narf

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on a personal note I find em usualy WAY TO SMALL to fit into.....do the rest off you have limbs that bend the other way or something and your not telling me?
I'm a bit over 6ft and I fit fine into my VW Fox, don't even have to go back all the way with the seat - one more step to the end. The Astra also qualifies as a small European hatch (ok, estate - but the driving position is the same), and there's plenty of space in that.
 

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That's just personal opinion there, you either like them or you don't. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.

I don't understand why anyone would buy a VAG 'bar of soap' sedan like the Jetta, Passat or A4, so we're even. :D I think I'd commit suicide if I had to look at that exterior every day. Plus IMHO, while the driving experience is usually good for whatever class it's in, it's not enough to overcome the generic exterior and terrible electrics.
Hehe touche :)
 

bartboy9891

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Everytime I've seen someone blabber on about soul it's usually relating to some heaping pile of trash that can barely make it down the road under it's own power for more than 3 miles. Due to it's badge though, it has "soul."
Ah but it's usually those oddly interesting cars that are rusted through and never running that people actually go out and buy. I haven't heard anyone describe a 70's Buick Nighthawk has being a car with soul, for instance.
 

LeVeL

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Phew, this is going better than I thought (no -reps yet!). Four interesting pages, thanks for the contributions!


But the SE does have suspension, aerodynamics*, and chassis support upgrades that do help a lot with the ride and handling
I'm sure the lesser Camrys also have suspension :p I can't really compare the newer family sedans but my Accord doesn't really handle and my friend's Camry is even worse.


Obviously you don't hang out with ricers too much. :p
No, but I do hang out with a lot of autocrossers :lol:


Make a transplant, put a K20A Type R engine in it, reinforce the body and go race with it.
^What he said :evil: Although a cheaper B16 or B18 would be great too.


The 8C looks like an ugly carricature of glorious designs from the past
:blink: The 8C is gorgeous!


:unsure:


What the hell is an EK hatch anyway? That's a Honda Civic.
An EK Civic is a sport hatchback/sedan design made from 1996-2000. The reason they are so popular is because of their handling.
The EK civics used a double wishbone front suspension while the newer civics use a MacPherson struts setup.
The EK civics are also extremely light so their potential to be turned into fast great handling cars is easier to do than with a newer Civic.
EK is just the chassis code for those Civic hatches. EF and EG hatches are even lighter but I just simply love the EK. I think it looks great and with the right mods it will go like stink.
 

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I'm sure the lesser Camrys also have suspension :p I can't really compare the newer family sedans but my Accord doesn't really handle and my friend's Camry is even worse.
Hence the word upgrade :wink:


IMO, the Camry SE is more planted and predictable in the corners than an Accord Sedan. It still gets understeer, but the Camry can be force into a lift-off over steer like hot hatches. Not to mention that fact that it is over a second quicker to 60 than the new Accord. :p The only exception would be the Accord coupe. I was never able to drive one as I could not find one. But from "magazine" racing, the Camry SE seems to have better handling characteristics by the numbers as well as in a straight line. I know that numbers aren't everything, but I never got a chance to drive the coupe variant.

The first thing I want to upgrade on my Camry SE are the wheels. They are just too skinny (17x7) I've seen other guys with highly modded Camrys (pushing 350whp) on wide 9 inch rims and wide sticky tires that have gotten the skidpad G's up into the .9 range. Of course, any car will pull more G's with wider wheels :lol:

EDIT: Also, don't anyone get too caught up in my defense of the Camry. Even if I owned a Malibu, I would defend it till it's death. Why? Because it would be MY car, thats why :p
 
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ninjacoco

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I kinda feel Cowboy on the urban SUV/crossover rant. I understand why some folks like them, though: you have the added visibility of riding up high, they're quite comfy, and they haul a lot of stuff. Yet...do not want. My mom lusts after Cadillac's new version of the big egg-type thing and all I can think of is: a) how on earth are you related to me?! and b) that's not a proper Cadillac, either. Bring back the gaudy land yachts--those had a style and character that was unique to Cadillac. While some of their current lineup isn't bad, I just feel as if they died the second they slapped the Cadillac shield on an SUV. And I feel like too much of their current lineup is devoted to replicating what other carmakers are doing--but worse (not unlike much of the rest of GM, really)--instead of building upon the gaudiness that made a Cadillac a Cadillac. But that's a whole 'nother rant.

Now for a couple others that really do make me scratch my head...

A couple of my friends have Kias and love them. I guess this must fit in the category of "it's my car and I'll defend it 'til the death," but didn't they ever drive anything...else?! I had to drive one of them home one night and it made my Grand Am feel like a new Merc in comparison. The build quality is terrible on those things (things rattle on ones that are only a few years old, for pete's sake) and I think my parents' riding lawnmower had more power. They're making cuter ones now, but: no. Most of Kia's lineup seems hopelessly bland to me, and I simply can't deal with a car that is that little fun to drive.

Another one that baffles me: Saturns. With the exception of the Ion, I've never seen one that doesn't look painfully ugly. The one I rode in wasn't even comfortable to sit in. I don't typically care if I'm sitting on a park bench if the car's pretty or fun to drive, but if it's neither, I start to notice things like that. Just awful-looking cars.
 
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Cowboy

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So, they're bad because they're designed to appeal to as many people and possible? Or is it because they get them safely to wherever they need to go?

While diesels do pretty much say you're a bit cheap, for people who are a bit cheap that's fine. Plus, generally these small hatchbacks - the good ones at least - are actually pretty enjoyable to drive - much moreso than a bigger car. Low weight and decent suspension design are an easy way to make a car fun, even if it's got FWD. If you don't need to tow anything (and most don't) they're efficient, reliable and very inexpensive to run. If you spec them properly, they're fun when you want too, what's the problem here?

As for size problems, I'm not a small person by any means (6" tall, not thin), and I've NEVER had difficulty fitting in a compact car. I suggest contacting the Guinness Book of Records, since if you can't comfortably sit in a Golf you might be the world's largest man.
Hey man if you wanna like em that's fine by me, the topic was about people not getting why other people like certain kinds off cars , well I don't get why someone would wanna spend money on above mensioned hatchbacks, sure you can spec em well, and If you feel they are enyoyable to drive then by all means knock yourself out.....I myself have more fun picking stuff out from between my theeth than driving one of em , its just......and I can't find another way of putting this : boring.

I'm not a BMW fanboy by any means ,I'm just trying to make an example, but take the cheapest, simplest 3 series you can find with the smallest engine available...the second you get in that it just 'feels' like it needs to be driven, like its designed to drive and gulp up asfalt.... the second I get into a diesel hatch I feel like its designed to go groceryshopping...witch is it , so is the beemer, but it just 'feels' different somehow.

As for the size thing....I'm quit large with long legs but hardly a giant .
Its just when you get into this compact stuff, there's this weird gymnastics exercize to get you right leg and foot behind the steering wheel because you cant just slide under it (well I can't) and when your eventualy in it it feels like your wearing the car instead of driving it..... your head is 2 cm from the roof (again mine is) so with every bump you smack into it.
Your left shoulder is against the b- pillar , you cant get your elbow up un the top of the door whithout rolling the window down so you can extend out (and looking like a wanker) because its just to close to you, your right shoulder is touching either your passanger or the passengersseat.
Your knee's are just locked in, surronded by dash , doorpanel and the wheel itself.....do I need to go on or do you get the idea?
 

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You probably are the worlds largest man. :p
 

NooDle

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I don't understand the recent fascination with everything AWD. Particularly in the made-up "crossover" market.
This. MASSIVELY. Also the people who drive a big SUV 4x4 thing and think the laws of physics no longer apply because they have AWD. It's still a high and very heavy car, it will still slide.
I've passed many "true" 4x4s last winter, just because I had winter tyres and they didn't. Loved the look on the dudes face as I sped past him, while he was skidding and sliding everywhere at 20 kph...

European dieselpowered fail wheel drive hatchbacks: EVERYONE drives these , and everyone who drives one thinks their good cars....their not, their just not....their well made, well thougt out to appeal to the masses, but they are as far from the essence of a car as something can possibly be.....apart from beeing a boat.
They are engineerd to handle predictably, to make em drivable to all groups off people, even the ones whithout an interest in driving, to look bland enough to appeal to the same people, they are powered by something that has to be economical , not fun, and on a personal note I find em usualy WAY TO SMALL to fit into.....do the rest off you have limbs that bend the other way or something and your not telling me?
They're not meant to be the greatest cars in the world, they're meant to be good for what they cost. I know, I drive a diesel hatch (with "name here" sticker :p) I'd prefer something cooler, or sportier, or RWD, but my lifestyle doesn't allow it. A baby, wife, lots of family, lots of trips to the store, means I need space and reliability. Lots of driving around means that diesel is less expensive than petrol. I chose the most powerful engine because I'm a bit daft, and I like accelerating a lot.

people movers : nothing quit says 'I have no backbone at all' like a guy driving a peoplemover, do you even need 7 seats? does this mean you have a wife and 5 kids? you don't do you? you have just gotten a peoplemover because the wife liked em huh? 'because that's what all the other mom's at the schoolgate have'
+bonus points for one off those "(insert-kids-name-here) on board" stickers on the back off em...
Same reasoning as above : if you have 3 kids you need a car like this. Not because of the 7 seat capacity, but because most can carry 5 people in comfort, or 3 people and their luggage in comfort. Not both at the same time.
Truth is, most men who drive these don't care about cars in any way. So they don't mind it being a "van" at all.

You should sit in one first ;)
This is true. Alfas are utter utter brilliance, and i've only driven one in my life, for 2 days (in which, naturally, it broke down).

And I can tell that people don't need peoplemovers because I actualy talk to them basicly...
Infact most of the people who own those things I know don't even HAVE kids, let alone 5 of em.
Again I can compleetly understand people needing one, but if you don't? (like most of em obviously do) where's the appeal in them? its not like they look good or preform and handle well? and certainly not cheap to run either.
Maybe they want to carry lots of stuff and don't want to get a "proper" van?

as for me driving a pick-up.....people considerd me an asshole way before I started driving trucks :mrgreen:

Seriously though at that point in my life I needed something that could haul lots of tools and building supplies around on weekdays, while on weekends towing a double horsebox and still be comfortable enough for (long) leisure trips.... So it was pretty much this or two vehicles, a van for workdays and towing, and a normal car for everything else....
+ thanks to a rather convienent loophole in Belgian law this thing is registerd as a van......meaning less roadtax then someone in a 1.2 diesel ecobox , togheter with a conversion to run on the cheapest fuel avalable its costing me peanuts to run.
While the need for a truck in my life has seriously declined (I can't work in construction anymore) the running costs alone make it a more then viable solution .

*and I like pissing off treehuggers aswell*
The reasons for owning a truck in Belgium are in bold. Not because you need one, not because you're a giant, not because [insert reason here], but because they're cheap to run.

That's just personal opinion there, you either like them or you don't. Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that.
Yes, but I thought the whole point of this thread was to better understand each other? So saying "I like how it looks" isn't gonna do it for me.

As for the size thing....I'm quit large with long legs but hardly a giant .
Its just when you get into this compact stuff, there's this weird gymnastics exercize to get you right leg and foot behind the steering wheel because you cant just slide under it (well I can't) and when your eventualy in it it feels like your wearing the car instead of driving it..... your head is 2 cm from the roof (again mine is) so with every bump you smack into it.
Your left shoulder is against the b- pillar , you cant get your elbow up un the top of the door whithout rolling the window down so you can extend out (and looking like a wanker) because its just to close to you, your right shoulder is touching either your passanger or the passengersseat.
Your knee's are just locked in, surronded by dash , doorpanel and the wheel itself.....do I need to go on or do you get the idea?
Just how tall and wide are you? I'm 1m79 and 100 kgs, so kinda short and fat, and I fit fine in any car i've driven so far. That includes a Smart ForTwo.
 

public

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I have a hard time believing in Euro Fords.
 

Cowboy

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@ noodle, I expected this to come from u, like I said to the other guy, by all mean please enyoy your hatch/peoplemover, whatever it is youl be driving now and in the future....just don't expect me to like em.

As for the reasons driving a truck? and your problem would be? believe it our not some people actualy USE em ,or do you think you can only carry lots of stuff around in a zafira? , I actualy have 6 (well 5 and a half) seats AND more luggage space at the same time......not that I used it for family trips often, then again I would like you see squezing a cement-mixing-drum (what the hell are those called in english anyway?) and 300 kg of sand and cement in the back of a 'practical' people mover .
And even if you do get it in its gonna be a mess for your interior......but granted that time has passed , much to my own disliking.....there was good money in that shit.

As for the economical benifit, why is it always the hatchcrowd who seems to have a problem with this? I didn't make the laws, I just use em to my benefit.....what's the average roadtax on a dieselhatch these days anyway? 300 euro's? ish? that's insane man.....
I run a V8 for 148 euros a year whithout any restrictions whatsoever, can you imagine me spending twice that much every year on a 4pot astra? witch actualy has less space, is harder for me to get into, have no intrest in and waves me to sleep every time I see it?
Besides that I just LIKE pick-up trucks, I can't tell you why.....I just do, they are what they are, and for some reason since I was a kid I wanted to own a big one....ever seen the fall guy? :p

As for my size, Im 1.95 for about 110-120 kg's (that goes up and down greatly) so I don't get it either.....we all know people bigger squezing into compact stuff.....
I can't undertand how they find comfort, I realy can't.....you bang into litteraly EVERYTHING in the car, I think they have just gotten used to it....

Then again this is all personal preferrence, And I Thought that was what this topic is all about....Yet I find myself defending my opinions for a good 2 pages now....
I'm sorry I don't like you peoples cars ....I just don't, some of my best freinds drive astra's and mini peoplemovers, what's the big deal?
I can't give a rats ass how you feel about mine frankly, so I don't see why everyone keeps making a deal out of it.....
 
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AiR

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I've driven more than one and you're wrong :p
I feel just at home in one. I don't believe in powerslides, or going really fast down a straight line. Alfas just make you feel welcome and a little special.

I struggle a bit to come up with something I don't get but I only come up with pickups and sedans.
 
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NooDle

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@ noodle, I expected this to come from u, like I said to the other guy, by all mean please enyoy your hatch/peoplemover, whatever it is youl be driving now and in the future....just don't expect me to like em.
I never did. I just don't see why you hate them. They're cars, they have a purpose, why can't you see that?



As for the reasons driving a truck? and your problem would be? believe it our not some people actualy USE em ,or do you think you can only carry lots of stuff around in a zafira? , I actualy have 6 (well 5 and a half) seats AND more luggage space at the same time......not that I used it for family trips often, then again I would like you see squezing a cement-mixing-drum (what the hell are those called in english anyway?) and 300 kg of sand and cement in the back of a 'practical' people mover .
And even if you do get it in its gonna be a mess for your interior......but granted that time has passed , much to my own disliking.....there was good money in that shit.

As for the economical benifit, why is it always the hatchcrowd who seems to have a problem with this? I didn't make the laws, I just use em to my benefit.....what's the average roadtax on a dieselhatch these days anyway? 300 euro's? ish? that's insane man.....
I run a V8 for 148 euros a year whithout any restrictions whatsoever, can you imagine me spending twice that much every year on a 4pot astra? witch actualy has less space, is harder for me to get into, have no intrest in and waves me to sleep every time I see it?
Besides that I just LIKE pick-up trucks, I can't tell you why.....I just do, they are what they are, and for some reason since I was a kid I wanted to own a big one....ever seen the fall guy? :p

As for my size, Im 1.95 for about 110-120 kg's (that goes up and down greatly) so I don't get it either.....we all know people bigger squezing into compact stuff.....
I can't undertand how they find comfort, I realy can't.....you bang into litteraly EVERYTHING in the car, I think they have just gotten used to it....

Then again this is all personal preferrence, And I Thought that was what this topic is all about....Yet I find myself defending my opinions for a good 2 pages now....
I'm sorry I don't like you peoples cars ....I just don't, some of my best freinds drive astra's and mini peoplemovers, what's the big deal?
I can't give a rats ass how you feel about mine frankly, so I don't see why everyone keeps making a deal out of it.....
If you need to move cement bags and mixers and 6 people at a time, a truck is indeed the only way to do it with 1 vehicle. But since 99,999% of my time I won't need such space or carrying capacity( in my case it's 100%), I wouldn't want one, ever.

I have no problems with you or anyone finding holes in the law. But you wouldn't buy such a car if it weren't for that loophole, now would you? Sure I pay 400ish? a year for my shitty diesel hatch, while you pay 148?.

But if you were taxed like a car and had to put "real" petrol in it, would you still buy a V8 truck? If the answer is yes, you are a "truck" purist (and quite daft too)
 

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While I understand the appeal, and why everybody any their mother in my car club wants one, I just don't like them.
 
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