Jalopnik: How To Tow A Jaguar Equipped With An Electronic Shift Lever

Spectre said:
Except the thing is that HE signed off on it, especially when it was clear that the technology being installed was possibly going to fail. This is stupidity on par with the first Bangle 7-series and the disaster that was.

Just about everyone else has an easily accessed and used emergency release for just this reason, but Jaguar doesn't. In addition, Callum has publicly taken credit for the car and says that he had a free hand with the interior - that it is to his own spec exactly.

Sounds like he's responsible. Anyone with a clue would have thought 'hey, maybe we should have included an override in case something went wrong'. In fact, most of the competition did. In fact, the predecessor cars did. Even the S-Type with the electronic parking brake had an emergency release that could be easily used.

Everyone could see this coming - except him.
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Designers are often pretty clueless about technical underpinnings, and if they were always allowed to do as they're pleased, we'd end up with a lot of useless prototype mules. I do not argue the fact that it was his idea to arrange everything this way, but in my opinion allowing him to make this go into production is a huge mistake on part of the whole company, and there are people directly responsible, since it's their job to make sure necessary controls are present. They could hide a button somewhere where it's not normally visible as to not spoil the looks of the interior, or make the arm rest lid come off easy, make the stupid coin-lock into something better. They didn't.
And if a designer has the right to override all that, it's a massive management failure. You just don't let the fox into a hen house.
 
Does anyone know how to shift a flappy paddle gearbox (any of them) into neutral when electronics fail? Does one have to pull some levers under the bonnet/from under the car, or is there a lever inside somewhere?
 
freefall said:
Designers are often pretty clueless about technical underpinnings, and if they were always allowed to do as they're pleased, we'd end up with a lot of useless prototype mules. I do not argue the fact that it was his idea to arrange everything this way, but in my opinion allowing him to make this go into production is a huge mistake on part of the whole company, and there are people directly responsible, since it's their job to make sure necessary controls are present. They could hide a button somewhere where it's not normally visible as to not spoil the looks of the interior, or make the arm rest lid come off easy, make the stupid coin-lock into something better. They didn't.
And if a designer has the right to override all that, it's a massive management failure. You just don't let the fox into a hen house.
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Except they actually do that at other companies and not here.

freefall said:
Does anyone know how to shift a flappy paddle gearbox (any of them) into neutral when electronics fail? Does one have to pull some levers under the bonnet/from under the car, or is there a lever inside somewhere?
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You just release the parking brake. I'm serious - a lot of them have a linkage to the parking brake (which is the actual problem with the Jag here) and you just pull the manual release (or in the case of the BMW SMGs, IIRC, cycle the handbrake lever) and the car rolls free.

Most of the FPGB's are actually in neutral with the power off. It's the parking brake or an internal trans brake that holds them still.
 
Jag now produce cars which Spectre doesn't like and are therefore crap. Lots of other people like them, but that's apparently irrelevant.
 
WillDAQ said:
Jag now produce cars which Spectre doesn't like and are therefore crap. Lots of other people like them, but that's apparently irrelevant.
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Correction: Jaguar now produces cars that break down while they're being reviewed, and they're riding the early-adopter wave that doesn't care as much about these things. Trouble is that once the early adopters are gone, they'll be in trouble.
 
Labcoatguy said:
Correction: Jaguar now produces cars that break down while they're being reviewed, and they're riding the early-adopter wave that doesn't care as much about these things. Trouble is that once the early adopters are gone, they'll be in trouble.
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Yes, but they were in trouble anyway. Not to mention that reliability is not the be all and end all, otherwise we wouldn't have Alfas.

If there were no way to get the car into neutral then this might be something news worthy. As it stands they included a release that's easily accessible if you actually know it's there. Beyond that it's just "new car breaks down" which can happen to anyone.
 
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That IS why we do not have Alfa in the US any more, actually.
 
release that's easily accessible
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You and I have a VASTLY differing opinion on what easily accessible is.....
Spectre,
The car looks great IMO, the interior features are cool as hell and IMO worth it. The problem here is more along the lines of having the override in an idiotic place and shitty electronics. Both of those things are QA fails more so than main designers. The design should have been reviewed BEFORE going into production but its quite clear that it wasn't.
 
Override in idiotic place: Design fault.
Electrics that do not work: QA fault, sometimes/often also design fault.
Having a corporate history where loading up cars with gadgetry invariably ends in failure and shame and not compensating for the possibility that this will happen again: Design fault.
 
The only blunder I can see Jaguar have made here is that there is no method of opening the glove box in a scenario where there is no power. Apart from that, everything is clearly laid out in the owners manual. The emergency key operates the front left door and luggage compartment. The location of the rather obvious keyhole for the luggage compartment is clearly marked in the owners manual. How to operate the EPR is also clearly laid out in the manual (and it states that one shall use a flatblade screwdriver, not your hands and excessive force or coins) and following these steps should be of no difficulty to anyone capable of reading (ignoring the fact that it's also illustrated).
 
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Spectre said:
Override in idiotic place: Design fault.
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Design trade off. You don't waste precious cabin space routing an emergency override function to somewhere that's going to be aesthetically pleasing to the owner. It does the job and it's easily accessed once you know where it is.

That IS why we do not have Alfa in the US any more, actually.
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We'll keep Alfa and Jag, you keep GM.
 
WillDAQ said:
Design trade off. You don't waste precious cabin space routing an emergency override function to somewhere that's going to be aesthetically pleasing to the owner. It does the job and it's easily accessed once you know where it is.
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Dismantling the center console by ripping it apart is 'easily accessed' now?

We'll keep Alfa and Jag, you keep GM.
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So we can fire all the Germans working for Opel, then?
 
Spectre said:
Override in idiotic place: Design fault.
Electrics that do not work: QA fault, sometimes/often also design fault.
Having a corporate history where loading up cars with gadgetry invariably ends in failure and shame and not compensating for the possibility that this will happen again: Design fault.
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OK while I will agree that it's design fault, I will ask to clarify what you think Callum was responsible for. My understanding was that he would be responsible for the overall shape of the car and the layout of the interior, there would be other designers involved in where overrides go and also there should have been a review process that makes sure that whatever design is put in place is sane. Unless of course they just pushed the car through to the factory floor w/o doing much of a QA process, that would suggest that management failed epically.

Mind you I'm not arguing that Jag didn't fail what I am arguing is that you cannot put the blame on a single person within a company in this particular case.
 
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Jaguar went through a shack up on the top end of management recently, this maybe on of the reasons. We will see what future Tata cars have these issues.
 
Spectre said:
Dismantling the center console by ripping it apart is 'easily accessed' now?
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Requires no tools, doesn't come undone unless you actually want it to and has no external visible catches... i'd say that's quite a good design.

So we can fire all the Germans working for Opel, then?
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If you must, although you could have got shot of it if it were that bad a brand.
 
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