Earthquake/Tsunami Thread - FG Members Check In.

Don't offend chimpanzees.
 
They just upped the disaster level to 7/7.

All this media hype and I still don't have superpowers. I'm starting to think Stan Lee is full of shit.
 
zeggawong said:
Another minute long earthquake in Japan. Tsunami warning for Miyagi. Was a 7.4 I think.
Can't have helped the Nitrogen injection they just started at the reactors.
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There was that one, late at night. Then there was another big one in Fukishima yesterday that really had the apartment swinging, then another one this morning when I was on the train (elevated tracks) that had us swinging all over again. Tectonic plates are seriously f'd up.

Thanks for the pics.
 
...plus a set of 6s and 7s in aftershocks. One of those would send many other nations into chaos on its own.
 
And interesting fact:

I've learned lately, that there are marking stones in the foothills around the coastline of Japan -- centuries old and many of them overgrown in time --, that carry warnings and instructions of how to behave in case of an earthquake and/or tsunami. They were left there as warnings for future generations.

The inscriptions on them them say something like "Don't build houses below this position" or "When an earthquake happens, run uphill as fast as you can and forget about your valuables".

Obviously they have been widely ignored.

Human nature is a curious thing: It takes about 3 generations and then even the worst disaster is gone from the conscious mind of the population, unless people are constantly being reminded of it.

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Often, human arrogance and ignorance are tightly weaved together.
 
GRtak said:
Often, human arrogance and ignorance are tightly weaved together.
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The Titanic comes to mind...


Backdraft said:
You know, for having gone through a 9.0 earthquake and a tsunami, the plant/structures actually look relatively pretty good.
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Pretty much all of the damage we see was done by the hydrogen explosions. With all the things it went through, I'm surprised ANYTHING is still standing.

Very well engineered plant.


- Dan
 
What the hell are you guys on about? If living anywhere there are dangers (or even doing something dangerous) means you are arrogant, ignorant and greedy then I guess you've just coloured the Japanese and even the world as a whole as such.

There is such a thing as risk mitigation and management, something those of us who live in the real world deal with daily.

If anyone is fully and constantly aware of the risk of earthquakes and tsunami it's the Japanese, and no, it hasn't been forgotten.
 
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It isn't forgotten but the longer it has been since the last big disaster, the more the danger is being suppressed and ignored, until it has completely vanished from the public consciousness. In the back of their mind they know the danger but they are simply ignoring it and feel safe, because there is some warning system they rely on and some precautions and stuff like that and not much has happened for so long anyway.

It doesn't matter, where you live or if you live in a particularly dangerous part of the Earth.

The forces of nature threaten lives everywhere. Here is a chronicle of natural disasters where I live as an example. Currently nobody here is in any serious danger of a storm flood. It doesn't exist as a danger in the public mind. After all, we have dikes now, don't we?

See what I mean?
 
MacGuffin said:
See what I mean?
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I thought I did, but now you are just confusing me.

MacGuffin said:
Currently nobody here is in any serious danger of a storm flood. It doesn't exist as a danger in the public mind. After all, we have dikes now, don't we?
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Are you saying the dangers of storm tides in Northern Europe should constantly be on people's minds? You have more chance of being killed by Lupus or lightning. Of course people forget about it, otherwise they would be paralysed by fear and never leave the house.

MacGuffin said:
It takes about 3 generations and then even the worst disaster is gone from the conscious mind of the population, unless people are constantly being reminded of it.
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I can assure you that in Japan we are constantly reminded of the threat of earthquakes. I can give details if you like, but I'd rather not clog up the thread even more - as I was typing this the early warning alarm went off again and we had another quake, the apartment is still swaying.
 
hansvonaxion said:
You have more chance of being killed by Lupus or lightning.
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Every year, three to seven die of lightning strike in Germany.
2394 died along the North Sea coast in the storm flood of '53.
340 died along the German coast in the storm flood of '62.
80 died in the storm flood of '67.
27 died in the storm flood of '76.

That's enough for 405 to 947 years of German lightning strikes.
 
Over the last 200 years there were 3,688 deaths, not all in Germany.
That averages 18.34 per year.

Deaths per year from lightning strike in Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Poland, Norway and Sweden; 25
(my figures, from WHO, show only 2 deaths for Germany, more conservative than your 3-6)

In Germany only...
Deaths per year from Lupus erythematosus; 37.

Deaths per year from falling off a cliff; 21
Deaths per year from falling from a tree; 32
Deaths per year from a fall involving a bed; 198
Deaths per year from a fall on and from stairs and steps; 941
 
In the weeks after this horrible disaster in Japan I learned (not only from here but also from what was discussed on TV), that is is nearly impossible to have a sensible discussion with people, who only think in numbers.
 
MacGuffin said:
it is nearly impossible to have a sensible discussion with people, who only think in numbers.
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I used numbers, how else should we assess the risk?

No, I think the problem is that you are making incorrect assumptions and claims about Japan and its people without even having lived here. I agree with you when you say that certain threats become less prominent in our collective thoughts when they fail to manifest over time (naturally), but that is not the case with earthquakes in Japan.

Also it's difficult to have sensible discussions with people who are being influenced by a sensationalist media.

MacGuffin said:
I've learned lately, that there are marking stones in the foothills around the coastline of Japan -- centuries old and many of them overgrown in time --, that carry warnings and instructions of how to behave in case of an earthquake and/or tsunami. They were left there as warnings for future generations.

The inscriptions on them them say something like "Don't build houses below this position" or "When an earthquake happens, run uphill as fast as you can and forget about your valuables".

Obviously they have been widely ignored.
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Really?

You realise that obeying those plaques would only protect against a certain size of tsunami, and that you would still be at risk from earthquake and at increased risk from landslide in the mountains? And you realise that those plaques have been replaced by much more ubiquitous warnings and signage? Do you have any idea how many people were saved by the precautions and warnings?

It is arrogant and ignorant to believe you can completely protect your self against the risks of natural disaster, or any risk for that matter. People simply do what they can within their abilities and budgets (and the laws of physics) to reduce those risks as best they can.

We are reminded daily of the risk of earthquakes in Japan.

If anything, you could say that the precautions taken against earthquakes are disproportionately high in relation to the risk.

When you go to sleep tonight, please keep in mind the risk of falling out of bed - more than 10 times riskier than the storm floods. Perhaps you should try a futon. :p
 
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hansvonaxion said:
When you go to sleep tonight, please keep in mind the risk of falling out of bed - more than 10 times riskier than the storm floods. Perhaps you should try a futon. :p
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Even better -- I have a waterbed :p But you'll probably say now, that there is a slight chance of drowning in that ;)

And yes, you can never protect yourself against all eventualities. But you could at least listen to the warnings of the forefathers...

What irritated me a lot lately, is people who say that "Fukushima isn't that bad. After all, nobody died so far." In other words: As long as there aren't any corpses to present, it's not so bad. As far as cynicism goes, that is quite on top.

Yes, it is easier to grasp a mine accident in China, where workers have to dig coal under inhuman circumstances. Because you can pull out a number and say "Here, look: That's the number of dead people", followed by public dismay.

It's not so easy with radioactive contamination, though. The thing is, that we know they will die eventually but we don't know how and when. They will die quietly and slowly, without any media attention. And sadly that makes it too abstract and uninteresting.

In most cases, the public reacts stronger to 100 people being killed in a train accident, than to 10,000 people dying slowly over time due to a nuclear meltdown.

Problem is: We (humanity) are surrounded by nuclear power plants. Almost nobody here lives in a safe distance from one. Allowing us to fear them, would also mean we would have to be consequent and get rid of them. But on a worldwide scale that isn't possible at the moment. So we decide to ignore fear and comfort ourselves with the thought, that we will probably be lucky and nothing serious will ever happen, where we live.

Thing is: The people of Japan probably thought the same.

People like me, who think that nuclear power is too big for humanity to control and manage, are a minority on a worldwide scale. Most people think we are hysterical and sometimes they laugh about us. But when I look at them, what I see is this:

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