For Americans wondering "Why the hate?", some answers from PBS

[trpnbillie11]

First off....PBS is so stuck up it makes Prince Charles look like Mahatma Gandhi, so they have no business talking about elitism and exceptionalism...

Second...I do believe America is the greatest country in the world for two reasons. One, I love my country and I am patriotic...so its partially my opinion. Second, we have a pretty damn good track record. Most of the things we enjoy in a global society have been at least partially because of American innovation. However, to say that the reason that people in the UK feel the way they do about America is because of some subconcious inferiority complex brought on by their loss of an empire is ridiculous.

People feel the way they do about America because its pretty easy to do so. We don't apologize for our arrogance (I don't apologize for saying we're the greatest country in the world) and when you're on top everyone else is always trying to chop you down. Most of the criticism, though unnecessarily magnified, is justified. So long as the criticism is in some way warranted and is done on a fair scale, then I'm ok with it.

Unless it comes from France...don't they have fires to put out and civil liberties to squash?

 

[chvvkumar]

@otispunkmeyer

India: dirty and dangerous, but they love cricket

After living in India for the past 24 years and seen quiet a bit of it, even I am sometimes taken in by the stereotype image of us being snakecharmers....

What I meant to say is I agree 100% with otispunkmeyer. Media makes or breaks public openion and in their quest for TRPs they make zeroes out of heroes and vice-versa.So much so that, after seeing TG for the past few years, i started to doubt the need for the freedom movement of India

As for america, there can not be organizations like Nasa/Lockheed Martin/Boeing/M$ so on and so-forth without geniuses. Though, they tend to be in the minority.

 

[Scooby5]

Second...I do believe America is the greatest country in the world for two reasons. One, I love my country and I am patriotic...so its partially my opinion. Second, we have a pretty damn good track record. Most of the things we enjoy in a global society have been at least partially because of American innovation.

I'm guessing you're not one for watching Micheal Moore films?

With regards things enjoyed in a global society, almost every country in the world can say it was "partially" responsible. The Japanese have a lot to claim in the scope of electronics, the Brits in engineering and science, the Germans also in engineering, the Swiss for banking, the French for..... for...... wait, i'll come back to that one.

My point is that not one country can claim to be the greatest. Where we are now is solely due to humankind's joint acheivements (i so wanted to say mankind) and where we will be in the future will be determined only by more partnership. In this regards arrogance will only hinder progress, regardless of whether it is French, American or British so we have to accept banter is just that, get a life, move on and all work together towards Gene Rodenbury's style Star Trek future where there is no currency and mankind functions as one....... sounds strangely like communism, of a sort!

 

[zenkidori]

 

[jeffy777]

It's funny, but no matter how many places I visit or read about, I still can't imagine living anywhere but Canada.

Yeah, I feel the same way about the US, but Canada would be my 2nd choice

I'm not a patriot really and don't really care much about politics, but life is pretty good here, and I've lived in both the north and south. I like living here, but I'm not going to go out on an obnoxious limb and say my country is the greatest because that's not my thing. I don't think any country can claim that title because every country has it's pros and cons, including the one I live in.

My philosophy is: No matter where you reside, there will be idiots, irritating people, weirdos, etc, regardless of what country you live in.

 

[Neodov]

Does it really matter?? Have none of us every heard the rhyme of sticks and stones??

It seems to me that the film "america at a crossroads" is a very america thing! Yes us europeans get fed up with americans ramming the "we are the greatest country" down our throats and of course there is going to be remarks made against that but look at it this way if you go about saying "we're the best" don't go crying when other people take the piss.

Why did someone have to stir things up on this forum, a fourm deciated to the love of cars and shows that give us the cars. Can't everybody just leave the "national pride" bollocks at the door and enjoy themsevles?

 

[nomix]

This thread can only end well...

Let's try to keep it civil.

I think there's a lot of truth in that thing.

Actually, it seems to disregard the most important thing, namely that "we" Europeans generally, I am saying generally, don't like countries that keep up a form of colonialism through making wars with countries that can't defend themselves.

Further, "most" Europeans (I have no statistics) wouldn't agree that the death sentence is anything else than murder, we really aren't that religious as you are. Again, no statistics, but I remember statistics in the back of my mind proving just that, if anyone would care to protest that, I'm open for that.

And we don't get why you need all your big cars. I get it to some point, since I've chatted with a whole lot of Americans, and I understand their point of view, the problem is that "we" don't understand it. I am, for instance, starting to understand the American idea of making biiig engines with little power, why? Cause you need torque of course! But again, many people don't. (As I've said before, Clarkson bashes America for its engines, but the Z06 has a 7 liter V8 making out 500 hp, right? That's the same as the M5, which has a 5 liter V10. And that might lead you to shout out about American engines being ineffective. But wait, what about Honda? The 2 liter in the S2000, I understand it's been changed to a 2.2 liter now, but that's beside the question, has 240 hp. That's a hp to liter rate of 120 hp per liter. So, I hear you asking, why isn't the M5 producing 600hp? And why isn't the XJR producing 504hp?)

That's just the way it is right now. And to be honest, I do believe there's plenty of people in Americaland who has just as large a dislike for "us" Europeans. We don't pray to God, we're all liberals and commies, we have to low drinking ages (16-18?) and too high driving ages (18+ ?).

I think it's time we just get that we're actually DIFFERENT. After all, there's quite a large pond between us, isn't it?

PS: The leaf springs and the push rods did it.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

And we don't get why you need all your big cars. I get it to some point, since I've chatted with a whole lot of Americans, and I understand their point of view, the problem is that "we" don't understand it.[/SIZE]

You have to remember, the US is pretty much bigger than all of (western) europe, and has had interstate highways for a long time, promoting very-long-distance travel. Now if you're driving to scotland or something, it might take 4 hours, you can deal with that in a little fiat, but to drive from florida to california might take 3 days, do you really want to spend 3 days in a cramped car with 3 kids, a dog, and a bunch of luggage?

I am, for instance, starting to understand the American idea of making biiig engines with little power, why?[/SIZE]

A) Really, the European view of American cars seems to be sadly rooted in the "Yank tank" era of 1940s-Early 1970s, we really dont make any of those "full-size" cars anymore (The only one i can think of is the Ford Crown Victoria, and there are rumors of discontinuing it any day now). I mean look at Cadillac, they were the last big holdout of big cars for old people (who lived in the aforementioned 1940's-1960's), and now they make a car tuned on the NURBURGRING!

B) The fact of the matter is, Americans race cars in a straight line, its just how we do it, and horsepower (Or really, gears 4, 5 and 6) is/are not as important as torque. And American engines have that in spades.

Why did someone have to stir things up on this forum, a fourm deciated to the love of cars and shows that give us the cars. Can't everybody just leave the "national pride" bollocks at the door and enjoy themsevles?

Sure, i'll just call you fat, lazy and stupid for a few years and see how you take it.

 

[TheJamesMayExperience]

This is all a bit over the top, isn't it? Granted if I was American I'd probably get sick of it after a while, but Jeremy isn't exactly flattering about Australians either, but having the Aussie self-deprecating sense of humor it's really water off a duck's back; and at the end of the day I still love Clarkson. That's what makes Jeremy Jeremy. He's outspoken, brash and politically incorrect. But really, he's just a seven-foot curly haired yob.
However, there is an alternative: change the channel. (Or watch BBC America).

 

[teeb]

Now if you're driving to scotland or something, it might take 4 hours, you can deal with that in a little fiat, but to drive from florida to california might take 3 days, do you really want to spend 3 days in a cramped car with 3 kids, a dog, and a bunch of luggage?

If I had to get from one side of your country to the other I'd fly or take a train :/

edit : to answer the opening post, that sounds like a lot of rubbish. The current anti-American sentiment in the UK, and the rest of the world, boils down to two things : George Bush; and Iraq. The first was when the anti-Americanism really kicked off (reelecting him didn't help) and the second just grates. We wouldn't mind so much if you'd gone through the UN first (as you're meant to do)...

edit edit : I also get the impression that Americans are more patriotic than any other country. Saluting the flag at school every day, for example...Maybe I get this impression because I am really not UK-patriotic (Scotland, on the other hand...), but some people have mentioned - whether they have holidayed in the US or met Merkins over here - that it can get annoying or grating.

 

[nomix]

You have to remember, the US is pretty much bigger than all of (western) europe, and has had interstate highways for a long time, promoting very-long-distance travel. Now if you're driving to scotland or something, it might take 4 hours, you can deal with that in a little fiat, but to drive from florida to california might take 3 days, do you really want to spend 3 days in a cramped car with 3 kids, a dog, and a bunch of luggage?

Really? I challenge you to drive from Finnmark at the top of Norway to Oslo in a Fiat.

A) Really, the European view of American cars seems to be sadly rooted in the "Yank tank" era of 1940s-Early 1970s, we really dont make any of those "full-size" cars anymore (The only one i can think of is the Ford Crown Victoria, and there are rumors of discontinuing it any day now). I mean look at Cadillac, they were the last big holdout of big cars for old people (who lived in the aforementioned 1940's-1960's), and now they make a car tuned on the NURBURGRING!

B) The fact of the matter is, Americans race cars in a straight line, its just how we do it, and horsepower (Or really, gears 4, 5 and 6) is/are not as important as torque. And American engines have that in spades.

I didn't disagree with you.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

Brits in engineering and science

Actually, i would hand that one over to the germans, in this part of the world the brits are known for tea and badly made cars

edit edit : I also get the impression that Americans are more patriotic than any other country. Saluting the flag at school every day, for example...Maybe I get this impression because I am really not UK-patriotic (Scotland, on the other hand...), but some people have mentioned - whether they have holidayed in the US or met Merkins over here - that it can get annoying or grating.

America is one of the most intellectually divided countries that i can think of, one city might think one way, and one city might be completely different, it all depends on how you talk to. My strong Anglophilia and left-wing ideology gives me a strong distaste for bush and the war in iraq (still very sad that we have broken our record of never attacking a nation unprovoked), and the re-election basically made me hate America with a passion. But when someone really lays into it and insults it, there is a deep deep anger, way deep down, so i suppose there is some patriotism in there somewhere.

I suppose if you ran around certain parts of the UK screaming about how "the queen sucks dick in hell" you would be promptly punched in the face, no room for "oh i'm sorry, its just my personal opinion". People need to be more polite in reguard to the wanton insult of an entire nation. (PS: We really are not as fat and stupid at we are made out to be, nothing pisses me off more than another bogus "Americans cant find america on a map" youtube video)

 

[thedguy]

edit edit : I also get the impression that Americans are more patriotic than any other country. Saluting the flag at school every day, for example...Maybe I get this impression because I am really not UK-patriotic (Scotland, on the other hand...), but some people have mentioned - whether they have holidayed in the US or met Merkins over here - that it can get annoying or grating.

Well everday in school we have to "pledge our allegiance" but in all honesty it's so forced that I don't think many students really pay attention to what they are saying. In my schools we never saluted the flag, and by high school the pledge was gone, replaced with a weekly airing of the star spangled banner over the school pa system, which we weren't even required to stand up for. Keep in mind I was schooled in California, which is notably different from much of the rest of the country.

A lot of the flag waiving "America FUCK YEAH!" attitude seems to dwindle the further west beyond the Mississippi river you go.

I am patriotic about my home, after all it is my home, but I see what this place is turning in to and it's not for the better. The whole thing with NOLA really made me lose a lot of patriotism, I expected the news to say "levee's broke, shits flooded, people evacuated,..." and 3 weeks later "things are getting taken care of properly."

 

[jeffy777]

edit edit : I also get the impression that Americans are more patriotic than any other country. Saluting the flag at school every day, for example...

Yeah, we didn't do that at the public school schools I went to (Michigan and Indiana) so not all the schools in the US do that.

 

[the Interceptor]

This is pretty much none of my business, but still, I may be so bold to claim that I am right in saying that the arguments why the British "hate" the USA are far from the truth.
First, it has been stated that "hate" is a way too intense expression, which is absolutely correct. Secondly, many of the british members have claimed that there is no dislike for the USA based on the stated reasons. I'm not british, but from my experiences with them and the way I understand GB, I'm absolutely with them. There also is a fatal sense of "nation X thinks Y", which has also been mentioned. You'll find idiots and clever people in every country around the world. Basing your opinion of that country on what you think they think about you is pretty much off for that very reason. Therefor, there simply is no "GB thinks X of the USA". It may be the opinion of some people, but that doesn't reflect on the whole country.

What I find especially fatal is the thought that a documentary always tells the truth. So even if you say you don't base your opinion on a country on movies and single individuals, rather than documentaries, you are mistaken if the documentary is mistaken, such as this one. I wonder what they said why Germany "hates" the USA...

 

[mkiv808]

America's the 800lb gorilla in the walk-in closet - everybody simultaneously hates it and loves it, wants to ignore it but is enthralled by it altogether. In the end, it's because nobody can deny its influence in almost every facet of human life.

Well put. Although, I don't know how enthralling an 800 pound gorilla in my closet would be.

 

[MattD1zzl3]

I am patriotic about my home, after all it is my home, but I see what this place is turning in to and it's not for the better. The whole thing with NOLA really made me lose a lot of patriotism, I expected the news to say "levee's broke, shits flooded, people evacuated,..." and 3 weeks later "things are getting taken care of properly."

I dont feel sorry at all for those people in new orleans, the idiots spend their federal grant money for building better levees on casinos and bars, to satisfy the "girls gone wild" party scene, then the idiot inhabitants dont bother to buy insurance for flooding, then sit and WHINE when their house is carried away.

The whole lot deserve it i say, it might be harsh, but you reap what you sow.

I live in miami, a place that was OWNED by Andrew (a stronger storm AFAIK) years ago, and it was back up on its feet in no time, so i'm not just talking out of my ass.


P.S, The only good southerner, is a dead southerner.

 

[speedyvespa]

As a Brit living in the USA, it's odd how Clarkson's anti-American remarks changed, for me, from being 'Little Englander' to making him look, well, stupid. And I say that as someone who likes the guy. I do wish he'd either balance his ranting or just shut up.

Perversely, I find that many Americans have an almost mirror-image approach to viewing the UK. They don't have any knowledge of chavs, ASBOs, crumbling council estates, most town centres on Friday night resembling a zoo (deep south barn dances are pretty civilised in comparison to, say, Nottingham at the weekend), and so on. They prefer to think of us Brits in very flattering - if a little patronising - terms. I am constantly given instant credibility here that I frankly don't deserve, on the basis of an accent (i.e. I must be excessively smart and whitty, and I'm neither. I do have iffy dentistry, however).

The States is, for me, modelled around British culture to this day. It's just been much more successful at making money, and is not embarrassed by success that isn't class-based. The lack of class-consciousness here is something I never tire of. It works both ways - people on the lower rungs are expected to display decent manners and don't have the class excuse to lean on. I have no idea where Clarkson got his "garden party attended by very rich apes? from - maybe it was a garden party actually attended by very rich, strategically-shaved apes and nobody told him?

What I also don't miss are British teenagers. I no longer have to steel myself for random abuse when approaching a bunch of kids aged between 10-16 in a street now. I nearly hit the floor when, after moving here, I scuttled past a bunch of kids outside a shop, appearing to look like the texting, hooded, s-shapes so feared (and so covered in the UK media) back in Blighty, only to have one of them say "hey sir, you left your lights on".

I'm from Manchester, and feel more comfortable and at home in Minneapolis, Chicago or New York than I do in London. I didn't understand why for a while - but it's basically down to the nature of the people - they're very for real and straight with you.

So am I a USA-lover and a UK-basher? Not a bit of it. I do miss the way much of the UK is just one large Constable painting. It really is amazingly pretty in comparison, I've now come to appreciate. I really miss the BBC, The Guardian, Indian takeaways and small cars. Am I an 'Americaphile'(?) ? Nope, things here do annoy me. People just do not know how to drive. The roads here are still Wild West. You do start to appreciate why the UK test is so tough (the basic requirement for getting a licence here is being able to get in the car and face the right way).

I've just come to realise that stereotyping people according to nationality is extraordinarily misleading and inaccurate (especially in a place as varied and as large as this???). How can you place someone from Manhattan and someone from Alabama in the same category? A New Yorker has more in common with someone from Manchester than they do with someone from LA, for sure.

As a final observation, has anyone noticed how the UK perception of an American has changed since the 90s? When Clinton was on the throne, Americans stereotypically were brash, overconfident and slick. Since Bush has been spouting his curious brand of faith-based psychobabble masquerading as political rhetoric, Americans are now seen as dumb. Now that is not fair...

Oh yeah... and one more thing....

George W. Bush's perceived bumbling incompetance and inarticulate mannerisms (which I maintain are a facade but I'll leave for another discussion)

'Percieved'? It's a pretty strong perception to me that his presidency has been one long, corrupt litany of idiocy and mistruths. I say let's have that discussion now.

 

[the Interceptor]

As a final observation, has anyone noticed how the UK perception of an American has changed since the 90s? When Clinton was on the throne, Americans stereotypically were brash, overconfident and slick. Since Bush has been spouting his curious brand of faith-based psychobabble masquerading as political rhetoric, Americans are now seen as dumb. Now that is not fair...

This is an excellent point! I've never made my mind up about this, but now that you ask, I must say my view on the US-americans has changed. That raises the question if you can judge a whole nation by their government (and/or president). Well, yes and no. No because there's a very high possibility that a lot of people just don't care about him and his views or simply don't agree. But still, he was elected, which means that there must be quite a bunch that agrees with him.

Continuing that thought, I must ask myself if I would be okay with being judged on the basis of Germanys current government. Actually I wouldn't (I didn't vote for them anyway), which brings me back to the original question, and to the insight that you'll never be able to fully understand why a country is the way it is as long as you just watch it from the outside.

 

[Cobol74]

Has anyone mentioned the utter drivel and crude propaganda that are some Hollywood films?