UCL 2011/2012 Champions League & Europa League Thread

Chelsea are getting better recently, but they are no where near their best yet. Still a stiffer challenge that three weeks ago.

Chelsea (they still have to play the second leg against Benfica, right?) doesn't have any chance, not only they are a clearly inferior team but they'll have the referees against them aswell.
 
Refs: They are used to that, so are all English teams in Europe..

I would agree that just at the moment they are inferior, watch out though - Torres is just starting to fit in and score. ...
 
Wednesday 4th April 2012
UEFA Champions League


Chelsea 2-1 Benfica
(agg 3 - 1)

Real Madrid 5-2 Apoel Nicosia
(agg 8 - 2)

So, Chelsea meet Barca in the SF. Hmm, should be an interesting game which no one expects Chelsea to win. :think:
 
I just don't see Chelsea progressing against Barcelona.

The Bayern Munich against Real Madrid is more open. Really looking forward to that one, Real Madrid are favourites in my book, but Bayern can definitely make an upset. I'm still hoping for a Bayern - Barca final, we've gotten so many El Clasico's recently.. Thoguh of course, none of them have been a ChL final.. :p
 
I just want Barcelona to lose. But BM - RM will be interesting. Chelsea dont have a chance though.
 
Thursday 5th April 2012
UEFA Europa League


Athletic Bilbao 2-2 Schalke 04
(agg 6 - 4)

Met'st Kharkiv 1-1 Sporting
(agg 2 - 3)

Hannover 96 1-2 Atl Madrid
(agg 2 - 4)

Valencia 4-0 AZ Alkmaar
(agg 5 - 2)

Chelsea dont have a chance though.

That's what everyone expects, including me.
But you know what a strange game football can be sometimes.

:)
 
I'm still hoping for a Bayern - Barca final, we've gotten so many El Clasico's recently.. Thoguh of course, none of them have been a ChL final.. :p
I'm just hoping Bar?a wins it again. Not only because I like them most, but because they are the only team in the semifinals that actually deserves to be in this season's Champions' League. All the others did not win their national championships last year.

Additionally, I'd find it very amusing if Bayern pulled a Leverkusen - second place in every competition.
 
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A strong showing by the La Liga teams in Europe this season, with 3 out of 4 teams in the UEL and 2 out 4 in the UCL. The UEL semi pairings are:

Valencia - Atl?tico Madrid
Athletic Bilbao - Sporting CP


I'm just hoping Bar?a wins it again. Not only because I like them most, but because they are the only team in the semifinals that actually deserves to be in this season's Champions' League. All the others did not win their national championships last year.

The modern UCL system is a lot better than the "champions only" European Cup of the past IMO. At least we don't have to watch too many of these Real Madrid - APOEL (with all respect to APOEL's performance this season) sort of games.

EDIT:

http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/shocker-apoels-paulo-jorge-has-two-teeth-knocked-out-at-real-madrid/

"fuck these teeth" :D
 
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The modern UCL system is a lot better than the "champions only" European Cup of the past IMO. At least we don't have to watch too many of these Real Madrid - APOEL (with all respect to APOEL's performance this season) sort of games.
The way I see it, the UEFA Champions League is designed to have more or less the same teams from the major countries in it every year at least from the quarter finals on, with very few exceptions (like Nikosia). To maximize TV ratings.

In my opinion, there's only one proper way to do a Champions' Cup: 1. a team has to be national champion to be in it (with the possible expection of the defending cup winner); 2. no crooked drawing. If ManU vs. Bar?a is drawn as a first round pairing, so be it; and 3. ideally K.O. system all the way, no group bullshit. But I'm willing to compromise on this one.

I want the Champions' League (or Cup) to be something special again, for every team and player, where every game (well, every second one :D) could be your last for years to come. Combined with the fact that in the "top" leagues of England, Spain, Italy and France, it's more or less the same teams every year making up the champion and runner-ups (which is at least partly caused be these teams cashing in on CL TV contracts every year and/or being attractive to billionaires in search of a plaything because of almost guaranteed CL participation), we see the same teams every year. To me, that's boring. I pretty much lost interest in the CL because of that.

Some of all that also applies to the Europa League. In short, I want the European international club competions to go back the way it was 20 years ago: Champions' Cup, UEFA Cup, Cup Winners' Cup. But it's too much money in it to do proper sports, so that's never happen.
 
The way I see it, the UEFA Champions League is designed to have more or less the same teams from the major countries in it every year at least from the quarter finals on, with very few exceptions (like Nikosia). To maximize TV ratings.

What do you think the point of the UCL should be? There is a reason why the same teams go far in the competition. Because they're the best.

The point of the UCL should be to determine the best team in Europe. While I like the surprise factor of random draws up to some point, I don't think the champion should be decided on just how lucky they got in the draw. I think the current system of determining the amount of UCL/UEL spots by country points earned by previous results is the most effective for truly determining the best team instead of automatically handing out Valencia's, Arsenal's (etc) spots to some Belarussian team just because they're national champions. Today the "lesser" champions are still given a chance but they have to prove their worth.

The Cup Winners' Cup was never that popular, no one cared about the Intertoto Cup and the UEFA Cup I consider a lesser competition than the UEL. If you went back to the old system I think the teams would have a lot less to play for. In England the difference between United and the rest would just escalate if United was always the only one grabbing the UCL money and media attention (sponsorship money, Asian fans etc), the same with Barcelona/Real Madrid. Decent teams like Valencia, Schalke, Roma, Liverpool etc would basically be playing for a spot in the UEFA Cup despite being way better teams than of some of the Eastern European champions.

There is a modern competition that is extremely hard to enter and is technically the ultimate club competition, the Club World Cup. Everybody knows how much interest it gathers...

The only major flaw I see in the modern system is that there are no UCL spots rewarded in the UEL. The UEL is still a pretty secondary competition compared to the national league for many, but a direct spot in the UCL would definitely add motivation for the teams who struggle to qualify through their national league (and who form a lot of the entries in the UEL).
 
What do you think the point of the UCL should be?
To determine the best national champion in Europe. It's even in the name, yet teams like Bayer Leverkusen are in it almost regularly.

There is a reason why the same teams go far in the competition. Because they're the best.
They're the best because they have the most money. They have the most money because they regularly get TV money for UCL participation, and they can get the best players because they can make a safe bet on playing Champions' League every season. It's circular reasoning.

While I like the surprise factor of random draws up to some point, I don't think the champion should be decided on just how lucky they got in the draw.
If you don't have fair draws, you degrade the not-so-prominent teams to decoration, like it's now in the group phase. In most cases, anyway. Of course they still have a chance to beat the big shots, because in the end, it's decided on the pitch.

I think you are missing my main point: Being in an international competition, much more the Champions' League, should be something that's not a given, never, for any club or player. The current system does exactly the opposite for the top clubs. How often do you hear something along the lines of "I want to play UCL regularly" from a footballer, him then going to Real or Bayern or something? These guys take it as a given that being in one those clubs practically gives them the right to play Champions League.

the UEFA Cup I consider a lesser competition than the UEL
Why? Because of the group phase that's ensuring that everyone once there gets at least six games and thus more money guaranteed? On a lower scale, it's the exact same thing as the Champions' League: Guaranteed money to make sure the teams get more of a head start on their national competition for next year.

We have a situation that quite a few national leagues, most prominent the so-called "top" leagues in England, Spain and Italy, are incredibly unbalanced because a few teams can plan with playing at least half the season in Champions' League every year. And that is not good.

Of course, the incredibly loose regulations and even weaker enforcement regarding financially sane behaviour play a rather big role, too. The "financial fairplay" campaign would be a big step in the right direction if it were more than empty words. But with FIFA being FIFA and UEFA being UEFA, I don't believe it is.

There is a modern competition that is extremely hard to enter and is technically the ultimate club competition, the Club World Cup. Everybody knows how much interest it gathers...
Well, the attention of most football fans is focused on national or continental competitions. The World Cup for nations is what exceeds that. Most people don't know enough of foreign-continent leagues to get interested in having one of theirs play against somewone from the other end of the world. From a European perspective, anyway.

The UEL is still a pretty secondary competition compared to the national league for many
Of course the national league is more important. There's where the history is, that's where the rivalries are, that's where you play every week. Europe is a bonus.
 
To determine the best national champion in Europe. It's even in the name, yet teams like Bayer Leverkusen are in it almost regularly.

I agree that the name is misleading and ironically European Cup would be a much more accurate name. But part of what gives Leverkusen a national fighting chance is their participation in the UCL, which is rewarded by their results.

They're the best because they have the most money. They have the most money because they regularly get TV money for UCL participation, and they can get the best players because they can make a safe bet on playing Champions' League every season. It's circular reasoning.

If you don't have fair draws, you degrade the not-so-prominent teams to decoration, like it's now in the group phase. In most cases, anyway. Of course they still have a chance to beat the big shots, because in the end, it's decided on the pitch.

I think you are missing my main point: Being in an international competition, much more the Champions' League, should be something that's not a given, never, for any club or player. The current system does exactly the opposite for the top clubs. How often do you hear something along the lines of "I want to play UCL regularly" from a footballer, him then going to Real or Bayern or something? These guys take it as a given that being in one those clubs practically gives them the right to play Champions League.

I see what you're getting at but I think your solution would just make the problem worse. You'd polarize the peak even further and while you might even the scales behind the top teams you'd leave them with nothing to play for. The mid-table would probably have a 20 point gap to relegation and to European spots around the end of season so why even bother. This already happens on a smaller scale but at least it's usually limited to the final matchdays of the season. It might work if financial fairplay was in use (although I highly doubt you could get it work properly and close out all the loopholes) but currently it'd be a disaster IMO.

Why? Because of the group phase that's ensuring that everyone once there gets at least six games and thus more money guaranteed? On a lower scale, it's the exact same thing as the Champions' League: Guaranteed money to make sure the teams get more of a head start on their national competition for next year.

DanRoM said:
We have a situation that quite a few national leagues, most prominent the so-called "top" leagues in England, Spain and Italy, are incredibly unbalanced because a few teams can plan with playing at least half the season in Champions' League every year. And that is not good.

Again, IMO this'd just escalate even further. Apart from the few in the absolute top playing in Europe is as much a stress as it's a blessing and to some extent actually balances out the national leagues. I doubt Juventus would be leading if they were playing in Europe at the moment not to mention would Levante and Osasuna still be fighting for a spot in the UCL if Athletic and Atl?tico weren't be playing in the UEL.

If you had the UCL full of teams like Partizan Belgrad, Dinamo Zagreb etc the big teams could put all their effort in the national league while cruising halfway through the UCL with their reserves.

Of course the national league is more important. There's where the history is, that's where the rivalries are, that's where you play every week. Europe is a bonus.

I agree, I worded myself badly. What I meant is secondary up to the point that you can't be bothered to even send a proper line-up in order to not hamper your chances in the national league and just take part because you have to.
 
Real Madrid got, quite suprisingly to me, outplayed tonight by Bayern. Ribery was working his ass off (though there were some not very nice acting moments), Gomez was a constant threat, and Lahm was just brilliant.

I had money on a Real Madrid win, but not taking that into account, I'm quite pleased with the result :) I'd really like to see a Bayern - Barcelona final.

I think Howard Webb did a great job refereeing as well, the instant yellow card to Higuain for pushing him to hand out cards to the opposition, they should do that more. Even as a Barcelona fan, the Spanish thing about constantly complaining to the ref gets old..
 
Tuesday 17th April 2012
Champions League


Bayern Munich 2-1 Real Madrid

Thanks for the summary Buktu, away goal for Real could be the key, but you may still get your ideal Final.

Odds for Chelsea getting a surprise, anyone?

(And Howard Webb is a good Ref usually, didn't have a great World Cup Final I recall and not as good as Collina, but a good ref.)

:smile:
 
Webb has a "don't fuck with me" look to him as well, guess that helps him ;)

Chelsea.. They've improved a lot lately, Di Matteo has done a great job. Barcelona are still favourites, and I'd be very surprised if Chelsea moves on. Drogba believes it to be 50/50, I'm more at 70/30 in Barcelonas favour :) That's for moving on to the final though, I wouldn't be surprised about a draw at Stamford Bridge.
 
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Wednesday 18th April 2012
UEFA Champions League


Chelsea 1-0 Barcelona

Hmmm. :think:
 
It was one of the more undeserved victories in recent memory, but you have to applaud Chelsea for their performance - they were pretty solid, end very efficient :) Barcelona had plenty of opportunities where they should've scored, so there's no excuse.

I still don't see Chelsea progressing, the Camp Nou game will be something else (hopefully :D).

Drogba is in great form, but my god he spends a lot of time laying on the grass.
 
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