Environmentalist groups

I think VW is going to release a new Jetta Diesel again, just like the 2006 version. :)
 
thedguy said:
Don't forget the American attempt at diesels. A diesel Ford Escort (which only about 5 people on the planet knows exist in the US) and that god awful gas v8 converted to diesel use.
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I think three things killed the diesel in the US. They were actually briefly wildly popular in the 80s, but the below items were what killed them off:

1. The noise and smoke. Even the most advanced diesels from Mercedes or the Japanese makers in the 80s rattled loudly and produced clouds of smoke when accelerating away from a light or when getting on a freeway. The public learned to associate "small diesels" with "aural and visual polluter".

2. The performance - or lack thereof. 80's diesels were slow. Very slow. A lot of people that bought them felt that they'd been ripped off (in terms of performance), and frankly many of them were so slow they were unsafe to drive in many situations in the US. The public learned to associate "small diesels" with "deathly slow".

3. Repair costs and frequency. This is where the diesel got screwed in the US. First, diesels are not as simple or easy to repair as a gas engine; or rather, they weren't in the 80s. Therefore, you had to take your diesel to the dealership (and get raped) or to a diesel specialist mechanic (and get raped) for service. Many of the diesels sent to the US in the 80s weren't very good and broke down often. At the time, GM still had the majority of the US market, and they responded to the diesel craze by hastily converting a gasoline-powered Oldsmobile 350 cubic inch (5.7L) V8 engine to run on diesel with the advice of their then-subsidiary, Detroit Diesel. The resulting diesel was a total disaster. It would last until the end of the 2 year warranty, and then do things like crack blocks, shatter heads, and drop valves, if you were lucky. If you were unlucky, you had it break down inside warranty repeatedly, whereupon GM would eventually deny you warranty coverage because "you abused it". And GM sold millions and millions of them before people found out that their 30mpg full-size sedans had a huge drawback. So the public learned to associate "small diesels" with "hideously unreliable at worst, hideously expensive to maintain at best."

The American people were willing to put up with some pollution and a lack of performance to save money on fuel. They were not, however, willing to deal with a car that either emptied their wallets on top of all of this, or was so unreliable that it would leave you stranded (which costs the driver/owner money in lost time, if nothing else). Thus ended the diesel as a mainstream propulsion system in the US for the next 20 years.

Ironically, most European diesels are *still* too polluting to be allowed into the US, which is why the selection is still so slim.
 
On the topic of environMENTALists.
My biggest problem with them is that they expect us all to change how we live our lives as opposed to changing pollution sources. I am more than happy to drive an economical car (right now it costs me $50/week to fill up on average) but it has to be a fun car to drive.

Another issue is people buying into the bullshit. I have a friend who got a Camry hybrid he paid 27K for it (for comparison my 2004 A4 with 48K cost me only 20). The mileage he gets out of his car is not that much better than a normal I4 Camry or better yet Corolla. Considering that he used to drive an Echo, he doesn't much care about the size of the car so would have been fine with a Corolla. I tried to convince him for over a month to not go for the hybrid but he ended up not listening to me (what does a guy who lives and breathes cars know, right?).

Now the tax breaks. That is the dumbest idea ever, a hybrid Lexus is worse on fuel than just about any regular sedan with a small V6 or an I4 in it. However because it says H on the end of the model you get a tax return on it. Same goes for the Camry hybrid that is not really that much more economical (if not less) than other small sedans that don't get tax breaks.

On the topic of diesel hybrids,
They exist. In NYC a huge number of buses are hybrid diesels. :)
 
prizrak said:
I am more than happy to drive an economical car (right now it costs me $50/week to fill up on average) but it has to be a fun car to drive.
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And a good looking one don't forget!
 
I'd love to have a 3 door little hybrid diesel, imagine the gas milage! ( have to figure it would be in the 50MPG range at worst! )

:D
 
the prius does have one thing its good at

old people

no joke, here the prius is subject to a paltry ?15 road tax. this fits in nicely with the pitiful pension you receive when your old and decrepit. secondly, its more than capable of taking you and the wife to the corner shop n back just on batteries for a week and you look less of a loser than in one of those invalid carriage things

but for everything else, its almost a sham.

i hate eco-weenies, but thankfully, the engineering department here is bereft of them. al the lecturers not involved with automotive stuffs or power generation are smart enough to know they dont know enough to comment....and the rest of them know exactly what theyre talking about when it comes to cars and pollution. (and if u have to ask, no theyre not screaming the end of the world)

i do what i can, and its mostly stuff that either makes sense or doesnt mean i have to go out of my way. i Walk places when i can, i recycle stuff because it means i dont have to empty the bin every 2 days (with recycling theres 3 bins instead and to be honest its hardly a chore to put a box in a different bin to food)
and i put my Mac book pro to sleep when i dont use it (it uses <30w anyway 90% of the time and during the day its often running off battery)

i am quietly happy about the way the uni does things too.... alot of rooms have automatic lighting which only comes on when some ones in there, and all the computers are timed to go off at 5pm if not in use.

i dont mind doing my bit when its stuff like that, seamless activities which also benefit me in some way as well.

some people do take it too far though, my house mate goes around purposefully turning off lights in rooms where theres no one in... even if i only left my room to take a piss, i come back an the lights off. people will be cooking in the kitchen and they'll come thru to the living room to chat for a bit while something cooks in the oven. when they get back, the lights off.

its quite annoying, and its a level of being green i cant stand
 
prizrak said:
On the topic of environMENTALists.
My biggest problem with them is that they expect us all to change how we live our lives as opposed to changing pollution sources. I am more than happy to drive an economical car (right now it costs me $50/week to fill up on average) but it has to be a fun car to drive.
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I hate the fact that they ONLY attack cars. Transportation throughout the world makes up for 20% of all the worlds energy usage. This includes cars, trucks, buses, rail roads, boats, ships, planes, jets, etc... The other 80% is practically ignored. Commercial vehicles use up more fuel and create more smog than privately owned vehicles yet it's the private owners who have to pay the price.

Why the fuck is it still perfectly legal for a 850ci turbo diesel in a cross country semi-truck still allowed to run with no smog equipment? The shipping companies have more money to spend on this shit than I do anyway (or at least can distribute the cost easier on people like me when I use their service). The thing I find funny about it is that diesel is taxed higher because their trucks use more of the roads and do more damage.
 
i do what i can, and its mostly stuff that either makes sense or doesnt mean i have to go out of my way. i Walk places when i can, i recycle stuff because it means i dont have to empty the bin every 2 days (with recycling theres 3 bins instead and to be honest its hardly a chore to put a box in a different bin to food)
and i put my Mac book pro to sleep when i dont use it (it uses 0w anyway 90% of the time and during the day its often running off battery)
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FYI the PSU for your Mac is still drawing power whether it is plugged into the computer or not and whether said computer is on. Not sure if there is a difference in the amount of power it draws but it definetly draws power.
I hate the fact that they ONLY attack cars. Transportation throughout the world makes up for 20% of all the worlds energy usage. This includes cars, trucks, buses, rail roads, boats, ships, planes, jets, etc... The other 80% is practically ignored. Commercial vehicles use up more fuel and create more smog than privately owned vehicles yet it's the private owners who have to pay the price.

Why the fuck is it still perfectly legal for a 850ci turbo diesel in a cross country semi-truck still allowed to run with no smog equipment? The shipping companies have more money to spend on this shit than I do anyway (or at least can distribute the cost easier on people like me when I use their service). The thing I find funny about it is that diesel is taxed higher because their trucks use more of the roads and do more damage.
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+1
 
thedguy said:
I hate the fact that they ONLY attack cars
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Agreed. Its just the worst sort of short-sightedness that they attack what see rather than the root cause.

I've got no problem with driving more efficient cars, and I tend to walk rather than drive my car short distances (mainly because I don't like driving the car with a cold engine) and I catch public transport to work as much as possible.

If I could afford to buy a little runabout with a highly efficient engine (I'd love a diesel Smart ForTwo / Toyota iQ) I'd buy one for getting the shops and visiting friends within my metropolitan area. I'd still walk to the shops and catch public transport to work, but it would mean the Z would only ever get driven to the track or out on the winding roads.
 
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