Buying a handgun?

Any pistol made in France. (Too many bad makers to list, no good ones)

So much so that the police here (all of whom are armed) buy from abroad (SIG-Sauers), which is pretty damn weird in the country of buy-French.

Steve Levin said:
Neither are particularly "fun" guns to fire

Another 'please forgive the ignorant Yurpan' question. What differentiates a 'fun' gun from a 'not fun' one?

I'm guessing feel and weight, for one...
 
As far as the recoil issue, remember that the .40 S&W was developed for LEOs who couldn't qualify on the 10mm auto. There was a lot of decision put into not just going to the .45ACP. That said, magazine capacity WAS part of the decision, which is something less interesting for home use.

"Fun" guns: The lightweight stuff tends to have a very sharp (if not always powerful) impulse. It sort of like being slapped v. being punched...sometimes the slap 'stings' more even if it's less powerful. Alloy frames -- although this is less true of modern guns in the last ten years -- also tend to age poorly as far as number of rounds fired. My J probably has 600 rounds through it, and it's easily "looser" than the steel framed one my father bought as a backup in the 1960's when he first joined the LAPD (and has had thousands of rounds through it, many +P).

Browning High Power's are fantastic weapons. The evolution of the autoloading pistol was (for John Browning) the Colt M1903 , the M1911, the High Power. One could tag the CZ75, IMO as the final (but not Browning designed) evolution of that basic layout. The SAS stayed with the High Power until quite recently.

Steve
 
Steve is correct, this is why I hate polymer-frame 9mm handguns. The recoil isn't very strong but it is very sharp. It feels like the gun is wanting to snap out of my grip; it's more of a rotational force than a linear one. The Colt 1911 has a stronger but longer recoil impulse, so I feel it more in my arm and shoulder and less in my wrist and hand.

Think about Newtonian physics and how it applies to polymer frame pistols. With a polymer frame and metal slide a greater proportion of the pistol's total weight is cycling with each shot. As you burn through ammo the frame gets lighter and lighter so the balance changes dramatically from the first shot to the last. Now, take a steel frame pistol like the Beretta or 1911; the pistol is heavier but better balanced, there is less change in weight proportion during firing and a lower percentage of total weight is in movement. More proportional mass in the frame means more inertia and that changes your recoil properties.
 
I think those are all great points, but what about in terms of carrying the weapon?
 
You should ask someone with a CCP for that.
 
Another 'please forgive the ignorant Yurpan' question. What differentiates a 'fun' gun from a 'not fun' one?

I'm guessing feel and weight, for one...

A fun gun has minimal felt recoil and muzzle flash - for whatever caliber it's in - is well balanced, and doesn't cause pain every time you fire it. Something that's, well, 'fun' to shoot for sport or recreation.

There are a great many defensive firearms that are *not* fun to shoot. But they're effective, so we use them anyway.

As far as the recoil issue, remember that the .40 S&W was developed for LEOs who couldn't qualify on the 10mm auto. There was a lot of decision put into not just going to the .45ACP. That said, magazine capacity WAS part of the decision, which is something less interesting for home use.

There was also other issues involved; not least of which was that the full-house 10mm rounds were wearing out and breaking guns like no tomorrow.

Steve is correct, this is why I hate polymer-frame 9mm handguns. The recoil isn't very strong but it is very sharp. It feels like the gun is wanting to snap out of my grip; it's more of a rotational force than a linear one. The Colt 1911 has a stronger but longer recoil impulse, so I feel it more in my arm and shoulder and less in my wrist and hand.

Think about Newtonian physics and how it applies to polymer frame pistols. With a polymer frame and metal slide a greater proportion of the pistol's total weight is cycling with each shot. As you burn through ammo the frame gets lighter and lighter so the balance changes dramatically from the first shot to the last. Now, take a steel frame pistol like the Beretta or 1911; the pistol is heavier but better balanced, there is less change in weight proportion during firing and a lower percentage of total weight is in movement. More proportional mass in the frame means more inertia and that changes your recoil properties.

On the other hand, a polymer frame can also cushion the recoil impulse because it flexes instead of transmitting all the force to your hand.

The Glocks and many of the poly guns have two "issues" that make some people dislike their recoil characteristics; their grip angle and action placement.

Almost all the poly pistols have a more slanted grip, with a pivot point further forward so when they go bang, they have a longer lever arm to torque on. The XD has a more "conventional" grip angle like the Browning High Power and a little more like the 1911.

The Glock 30 is one of the softest-recoiling .45's I'd ever fired. They moved the chamber towards the rear compared to where it is on the 21, and the grip is short enough that you can get a better angle on it. The double recoil springs (introduced with that gun) help a lot, too.

The XD also has a "rear" biased chamber location as well. The .45 XD is pleasant to shoot, at least for me.

I think those are all great points, but what about in terms of carrying the weapon?

Revolvers of any size can be difficult to conceal, as the cylinder is often wider than an entire automatic pistol. Also, revolvers tend to be a bulbous package as opposed to a "flat" semiauto, and are therefore harder to conceal in that respect. Finally, revolvers are *heavy*, and concealing a decent sized one all day is a PITA.

A S&W Model 29 carries less rounds, is heavier, longer and wider than my Browning High Power, and if you fire .38 Specials in it, has no power advantage. Therefore, I'd say get an automatic.
 
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I don't want my gun to flex, I want the tolerances to stay where they are supposed to be.
 
*All* weapons flex a little when they are fired, even the all-metal ones. If you try to make it so it doesn't, you get the problem Colt discovered with the Lightweight Commander (first aluminum framed gun) - it eventually cracks.

Grossly speaking, there are actually only three sets of tolerances (aside from ammo) that a Browning action actually cares about for function. Slide to barrel, magazine to barrel chamber or feed ramp, and slide to trigger mechanism (transfer bar in my BHP). Slide to frame and barrel to frame are *not* critical tolerances. In fact, if you pick up any 1911 that's set to normal production or maximum reliability tolerances and shake it... it *rattles*. That's because the slide is purposely loose on the frame rails to allow *it* to flex when fired, among other reasons. If you tighten it up for greater accuracy, you lose reliability, and you actually shorten the frame life, even on a steel 1911.

Since all the polymer frame pistols use steel plates and inserts to keep the geometry and tolerances in critical areas, they maintain the critical tolerances just fine (as empirically demonstrated) for 99% of shooting. And since the frame is designed to flex and absorb energy, they can be put together with tighter tolerances - which is why a Glock 21 *doesn't* rattle if you shake it.

In fact, here's a pic to show you just how much metal is in a Glock:
glockxray.gif


Polymer frames are also lower maintenance.
 
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