BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

[MacGuffin]

BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?

The problem is that the current capitalistic system slowly and subtly erodes the social peace.

Our societies are based on the assumption that everyone can become rich, if they work hard enough, if they have a brilliant idea or if they have a proper education.

Thing is, though, most people won't become rich. That's alright as long as they still think they're not losers or failures of the system. But that is exactly what has been happening in the past decades and what was much accelerated by the financial crisis of 2009: People who felt they took profit from living within the system, suddenly became losers of the system.

Since we don't live in the Middle Ages anymore, where the social order was considered God-given and was never questioned, this has social unrest as a result. And it is strongest in places where the capitalistic system is most radical, namely in the USA. The result are people who suddenly think a clown like Donald Trump could be a good president.

People fall for pied pipers and populists, when they are made to feel like losers or failures. It had always worked this way and will continue to work until there is a Big Bang.

The elite, the rich and the established authorities usually realize too late that something needs to be done and then suddenly find out the hard way that they're the minority.

And right now we're experiencing the prelude to the kind of social unrest that can fundamentally transform a society -- the hard way.

Wise men would try to avoid that and tweak the system in a way everyone feels satisfied with it but can you name any wise men in politics at the moment? I can see none. Nowhere.

 

[jack_christie]

Leadsom runs away and May is now unopposed
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...adsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live

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It?s not broken. It works exactly the way it?s set up to work.

Its not good.

Deutsche Bank chief economist calls for 150 billion euros in EU bank bailout-Welt

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-banks-idUSKCN0ZR0RT

Deutsche Bank may need bailout too...

http://theduran.com/italys-loan-problems-nothing-compared-deutsche-bank-hiding/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmnfZDNWgAAUXuG.jpg

 

[xuri]

What's with the tweet about Ed Milliband?

 

[jack_christie]

What's with the tweet about Ed Milliband?

Maybe slightly ironic.... :lol:

The Bigger Threats to U.K. Banks

British banks have more than 65 billion pounds ($84 billion) of exposure to commercial real estate -- precisely the sector markets fear is vulnerable to a big correction as investors rush to pull their money.

http://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...nk-risk-extends-beyond-commercial-real-estate

 

[mpicco]

You missed out on some parts, parts that affect your country as well. But he, keep having selective hearing.

Did you miss the parts where the guy looks straight in the eyes of the greeks and says "you need to decide what you're going to become because you don't have a plan, your leaders are mediocre and don't have a plan" ? Is that the EU's fault? What's your response to that? Would you give a country like that more, or less oversight?

It?s not broken. It works exactly the way it?s set up to work.

What?s false is peoples perception of the system and what they are told about it. Nobody being held accountable, being bailed out by the taxpayer (who?s savings, pensions, homes they pretty much held and still hold hostage) - those are not faults of the system or signs that it is broken. That?s the system doing what it?s set up to do, using the legal freedoms that we (as a society) give it.
The thing that?s "broken" is information. That "we the people" are not being told about this or not enough to make an informed decision about what?s best for our society.

I'm not an economist, but I tend to disagree here. "set up" kind of implies premeditation, like a group of people gathered one day in a room somewhere and decided from now on, thus. That's too much conspiracy theory-new world order for me.

As far as I understand it, capitalism evolved naturally from mercantilism and imperialism, the idea of trade and exchange, banking, but up until some point, everything was representative of actual "money", mostly gold. In some point in time all the virtual money overtook the real money - by virtual money I mean loans 'expecting' good future results and always counting on economies growing, in order to be able to pay back what they borrowed, and many times that system imploded in on itself because that's plainly impossible - in a system with limited resources like the Earth, what's the justification for having unlimited money?

What would happen if every lender tried to collect on every debt at the same time? There's not enough wealth in the world.

So yes, I maintain Capitalism is flawed and we all know it. It is a human invention and much like humans, it is short sighted, corrupt and pretty self serving.
I am not suggesting communism or anything like that, I am aware that Capitalism is the only thing we have for now.

It needs a lot of improvement but the people who could improve it are the same ones who have the most to lose those reforms. It doesn't look like it's going to happen.

So what do we do? Just suicide cos the system is fucked up? Do a personal Brexit and quit capitalism, go live in North Korea?

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Reading up on that Deutsche Bank thing... that's exactly my point. That's capitalism bloated out to cancerous proportions, distorted, completely out of control. How can a bank have an exposure several times the size of the continent it's inserted in?
I'm not going against DB here, it's the order of business with big banks. They all have their hand in the pot and the way they conduct business is absolutely disgusting. Reminds me of this scene in The Big Short (which I highly recommend)

Anyway how does this all relate to Brexit?

 

[Tzarrim]

Anyway how does this all relate to Brexit?

It's about keeping as much control over politicians bankers and whatnot by keeping them on a short leash, were they can (to some degree) be held accountable through elections and laws. Laws that as long as you have a vote on the politicians who vote for those laws we the citizen have at least some control over. I don't have a problem with a union, I have a problem with how the current union is set up. We the citizens have zero control over it and that means it's the ultimate playground for amoral career politicians and their friends.

If it's obvious that after all those years the EU as it currently is offers no solutions and only makes us all poorer (apart from a certain country), partly due to payments from the "rich" countries to the "poor" and partly because the "poor" countries are being kept on their knees to pay for "that certain country's" economical successes, combined with the zero accountability and a complete lunatic, totalitarian attitude of the current EU.... it's time to bail.

 

[jack_christie]

Brexit threatens to scupper England cricket?s ?4m-a-year sponsorship deal with RBS

instability in the financial sector since the Brexit vote has seen the bank?s share price slump by 30 per cent and it is understood the climate of uncertainty could scupper any potential deal.

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/spor...ngland-crickets-4m-year-sponsorship-deal-rbs/

 

[gaasc]

Without any idea about her or her policies: Holy shit does she look like a neo-thatcher

 

[mpicco]

It's about keeping as much control over politicians bankers and whatnot by keeping them on a short leash, were they can (to some degree) be held accountable through elections and laws. Laws that as long as you have a vote on the politicians who vote for those laws we the citizen have at least some control over. I don't have a problem with a union, I have a problem with how the current union is set up. We the citizens have zero control over it and that means it's the ultimate playground for amoral career politicians and their friends.

If it's obvious that after all those years the EU as it currently is offers no solutions and only makes us all poorer (apart from a certain country), partly due to payments from the "rich" countries to the "poor" and partly because the "poor" countries are being kept on their knees to pay for "that certain country's" economical successes, combined with the zero accountability and a complete lunatic, totalitarian attitude of the current EU.... it's time to bail.

By now, I'm pretty sure you're a troll, or scraping the bottom of the barrel to maintain your argument, not to go into personal opinions about your intelligence, but do you honestly believe the UK will now have their politicians and their bankers in a shorter leash?

Have you gone and watched the video (from a reputable educator) on how the current government is the least representative ever in UK's history?

You think that the fact there was a referendum now means that the people will be consulted with the running of their country?

The fact that the master orchestrators who spoon fed the people huge amounts of bullshit and missinformation have left right after the results were announced is a huge indicator here.

This is the closest you'll get to the "people" having their leaders in a short leash, going against what the ruling party wanted to do (remain) in a referendum, and instead of being a vehicle for change and to move forward with their more populist agenda, these con artists left with the tail between their legs.

 

[Tzarrim]

They get to make their own choices, whatever those choices may be. Freedom and the ability to vote (in a meaningful manner) as concepts are far more important than some money. And at the very least they get to choose if they want to give countries who've been living above their means should be given any of their money.


Also, that video has nothing to do with the brexit vote, but nice try.

 

[jasonof2000]

I really think the boomers are out to destroy the world before they die off.

 

[ScarFace88]

 

[jack_christie]

 

[jack_christie]

John McTernan's Rant - 12 July 2016
[video=youtube;TskZf-5_DuE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TskZf-5_DuE&feature=youtu.be[/video]

John McTernan was a 'colourful' advisor to Tony Blair
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12767396.Row_over_insulting_email/

http://order-order.com/2015/05/21/the-curse-of-mcternan/#_@/qo03jZf6LG8itQ

You can't call Jeremy Corbyn unpopular and unelectable while fighting to keep him off a ballot because he's too popular

When Angela Eagle launched her campaign she made much of the fact that these are 'dark days for Labour'. What she failed to mention was that the party?s membership is now at its highest point in decades, and is rising

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-to-keep-him-off-a-ballot-makes-a7132276.html

 

[narf]

Why is the motorcycle's license plate spelling JEZZA!

 

[jack_christie]

John McDonnell: "As plotters they were fucking useless.."

https://twitter.com/BenQuinn75/status/752994128976285696

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Why is the motorcycle's license plate spelling JEZZA!

Jeremy Corbyn on the motorbike.

Before the big Labour party meeting, some interpreted the party rules to mean that because Corbyn is supported by only 40 of his 230 MPs he wouldn't get on the ballot paper, even though he is the party leader. Corbyn doesn't have enough support to for a shadow government.

The NEC had been asked to decide whether the Labour rulebook meant Corbyn should be put on the ballot paper without winning the support of at least 51 of the party?s MPs and MEPs ? the hurdle any challenger would have to overcome.

If he had not been allowed to appear automatically, it could have blocked him from standing, since just 40 of his MPs backed him in a recent no-confidence vote. Corbyn and his allies had then been expected to launch a legal challenge to seek to overturn the NEC?s ruling.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...abour-leadership-ballot-paper-party-rules-nec

 

[jack_christie]

David Cameron humming remix

 

[mpicco]

They get to make their own choices, whatever those choices may be. Freedom and the ability to vote (in a meaningful manner) as concepts are far more important than some money. And at the very least they get to choose if they want to give countries who've been living above their means should be given any of their money.


Also, that video has nothing to do with the brexit vote, but nice try.

It has everything to do with the nail you keep hitting which is "they want democracy to decide who governs them" and "they want representative government". The current government does not represent the will of the people at all and that applies to most "democratic" countries where first pass the post voting systems have diluted your choice of who governs into two parties which take turns running the country.

 

[jack_christie]

The Conservative party has only about 130k members.

Labour now has about 600k, about 130k of them since Brexit. Most of the new members support Corbyn.

One opinion:

 

[Tzarrim]

It has everything to do with the nail you keep hitting which is "they want democracy to decide who governs them" and "they want representative government". The current government does not represent the will of the people at all and that applies to most "democratic" countries where first pass the post voting systems have diluted your choice of who governs into two parties which take turns running the country.

It beats the terribleness of the EU who doesn't care what the UK people say or want. Take TTIP, which is terrible. You just know it, or a derivative, is going to happen in the EU. Should you want this? Hell no. Is there anything a country gets to do about it? Nope. Fck that.

Leaving the EU as it currently is, is short term bad and long term good. Perhaps the EU crashes and is reborn in a more healthy less perverse version of it and then they come back. Perhaps the EU remains as terrible as it is and then they can watch from the sidelines how it gets worse and worse. You're just pissed because the UK leaving might affect you personally and financially, that's terribly selfish. I also realize that it might affect me financially but I say "good on you UK" because to me there's more important things than that.

The EU is ill, it's perverse. There's countries in there that should never have made it in and decisions that are taken aim it towards an EUSSR (something leftwing folks don't mind, it's not like they cared for this whole democracy concept much, history wise). It should be lean and mean, decisive and positive. It's not. It's rotten.