You do realise that you've just fundamentally contradicted yourself in the span of two sentences? You simply don't get "lean and mean" in a democracy, that's the whole point of it.
BRexit : Shall UK stay in EU or go now?
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Funny, the UK made its democracy a lot leaner and meaner.
And if I'd us EU citizens would actually have had a vote I'm fairly sure the EU would not expand towards Ukraine and wouldn't have expanded towards countries that don't mesh very well in regards of economy and, shall we say, mind set. But the EU is not a democracy and thus it happened, BECAUSE the EU is a molog that can't be held accountable for its actions by its citizens.
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I really get the feeling that some people really want some Stalin to stand up and create the EUSSR. There's more people who tried something like that and weirdly they all turned out to be dictators who ended up killing millions and leave behind misery, broken countries and economies. As said, left wing folks don't really care much for this alien concept called democracy.
And if I'd us EU citizens would actually have had a vote I'm fairly sure the EU would not expand towards Ukraine and wouldn't have expanded towards countries that don't mesh very well in regards of economy and, shall we say, mind set. But the EU is not a democracy and thus it happened, BECAUSE the EU is a molog that can't be held accountable for its actions by its citizens.
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I really get the feeling that some people really want some Stalin to stand up and create the EUSSR. There's more people who tried something like that and weirdly they all turned out to be dictators who ended up killing millions and leave behind misery, broken countries and economies. As said, left wing folks don't really care much for this alien concept called democracy.
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If by "mean" you actually mean "unrepresentative and full of back-stabbers", you're correct. As for "lean", you're also correct: so lean in fact that a campaign which completely dispensed with facts managed to get 51.9% of the vote in a recent referendum.
Which ones are those?
By "lean and mean" I mean that they have more direct control over their country, I'm sure you're not that stupid that you don't understand this.
Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Portugal, Greece and similar stuff. The ones that lack a viable economy that works and/or are so corrupt that they're just useless and shit. They pull the rest down and because they can't keep up they actually create problems for themselves.
Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary, Romania, Portugal, Greece and similar stuff. The ones that lack a viable economy that works and/or are so corrupt that they're just useless and shit. They pull the rest down and because they can't keep up they actually create problems for themselves.
I don't like to quote myself, but this case is an exception:
You're just a xenophobic troll.
Cowboy
My name is Sheridan
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Why is the motorcycle's license plate spelling JEZZA!
It's a conspiracy!
I'm blaming Evans....
35-40 years ago people in Spain outside the major cities rode around on fricking mule carts or, if they had done really well for themselves, a beat up white Fiat 127. Not 4 decades later everyone has the latest iPhones, drives in Audi's and own all kinds of expensive stuff. What has changed in the economy in those 30 years? Nothing at all, they've done nothing that allows for such a change. What they've done is sell all their assets, borrowed money, sold their souls and future. They spent it all and when that shit ran out they held up their hand and when THAT ran out they started to pout and protest. It's no different in, say, Greece and I'm sure it's exactly the same in Portugal.
Meanwhile the northern EU countries, the sensible ones, saved money and worked hard. Our tiny little country has 1400 billion euro in pension money, saved up via strict rules, regulation and careful (to a degree anyway) growth, we've been thinking ahead for generations to come. And now the EU wants our pension money, they need it, they want to have it and spend it because that is what socialists do: spend other people's money. Explain to me why we should pay for clowns like Greece, Portugal and similar countries who have the budget mentality of a 5 year old.
then we get to countries who are so new or corrupt that they simply don't have an economy at all. All we're importing from those countries is criminals while exporting our stolen cars. Again, explain to me why we should spend all our hard earned money on them.
Just because you don't like it doesn't make it any less true and doesn't make me some sort of troll.
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No, it doesn't.
What makes you a troll is insisting on the idea that e.g. Spaniards under Franco used (mostly) "fricking mule carts" and bought "Audi's" [sic] with Dutch "pension money". When asked to provide the information that led you to this way of thinking, you respond instead with repetitions of the same lies, accusations and lazy stereotypes.
SirEdward
Well-Known Member
Because who the hell continued lending them money everybody knew they couldn't give back? And why?
The answer dwells in the nothern, good-faced countries.
Seriously, take Greece. how the heck have they ended up strngled in debts in the first place. They were indeed corrupt, so how did they manage to get all that money to waste? The answer is: northern banks, because of greed.
And when Greece was going down, why was it saved, knowing that they wouldn't be able to repay that money too? Because Greece would have brough everyone down, -including- the shiny, clean, responsible northern european asses, the same ones who got plenty of money by playing with rulemaking, allowing them to grow exponentially while stifling everyone else down.
Greed, again. Europe should have a finance minister. It should have never had a single currency before having a single government, and a single finance minster, and common laws for taxes and jobs. It has, and now it can't avoid each countries thinking selfishly and bleeding the system down.
And the northern, shiny-assed countries should remember it, not give away responsibilities like it was a joke. Where the heck was the Netherlands when they allowed huge tax-evasion by private companies from all over the world, to get some dimes while other european countries starved and got overcompeted by foreign companies with the help of the Dutch government?
Europe has been less important to the northern countries than their own interest was, just like it has been less important for Greece than it ridiculous corruption. I honestly can't see that great difference, if we talk about "Europe".
And what is happening right now is exactly the same. Brace for another crisis. Banks again, probably, that will be saved by OUR money. Again. They might be southern European banks, or the majestic German banking system, but as long as Europe will go divided and selfish, everything will crumble down.
Mind you, I don't think there is a future of wealth for Europe outside Europe, but there is not a future of wealth for Europe with this Europe.
Banks from all countries, mostly because banks are international.
More importantly, the person/country that decides to do that stuff is at fault. What you're saying is "well, it's society's fault this poor family decided to buy a car they can't afford which is now being impounded by the bank they borrowed the money from. They could have bought a cheaper one but really society pushed them into this one, they had no choice. they're victims!". No, they choose to have (as stated) the budget mentality of a 5 year old, now they get to live with the results of that. Is that terrible? Yes. Is that unfair to their younger generation who didn't have a choice in the matter? Yes, very. But it's just as unfair to the ones who DIDN'T act like morons and now for some reason should cough up their hard earned money.
If you feel so sorry for that feel free to send 50% of your income to a poor family in Greece. What? People don't want to do that? Oooooh, they're fine spending other people's money, just not their own.
They don't pay taxes, it's ingrained in their society to not pay taxes. A large part of their workers are government paid ones. A majority of them retires at 50 or so. That simply won't work and you can list all kinds of compounding issues (which are true ofc) but in the end it's because they're not exactly productive.
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I never stated that, it's as if you can't read. But feel free to explain to us what miraculous economy changes happened in Spain, Greece, Portugal etc that allows for this suddenly increase in living standards. Have they been booming somehow, surely there must be a logical explanation.
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Three names: Franco, Papadopoulos and Salazar. Remind you of anything?
Again. Please point out what products or services they suddenly, as a nation, started to export which would explain how their economy suddenly did so much better. It's the same with France, they've not done anything in the past few decades and in fact they've become far worse. If you haven't noticed France is fcked.
The UK was in that same "woe is us, we used to be world leader" state of mind but lately have been making the push towards more technology export and their business has always done well. Germany has through globalization and the EU done really well and us Dutchies have also done quite well on the global market with our own niches and expertise. Meanwhile Denmark has sneakily, and quietly, done really well for themselves and Austria, well... it's Austria. We've all gone forwards, through all the setbacks we've all adapted, some faster than others but still, and chose to do well.
Spain, Portugal, Greece etc didn't. They decided that spending money is far more fun than earning money.
The UK was in that same "woe is us, we used to be world leader" state of mind but lately have been making the push towards more technology export and their business has always done well. Germany has through globalization and the EU done really well and us Dutchies have also done quite well on the global market with our own niches and expertise. Meanwhile Denmark has sneakily, and quietly, done really well for themselves and Austria, well... it's Austria. We've all gone forwards, through all the setbacks we've all adapted, some faster than others but still, and chose to do well.
Spain, Portugal, Greece etc didn't. They decided that spending money is far more fun than earning money.
SirEdward
Well-Known Member
Not at all. It's the lender's fault if they continue to lend that same family money at the same low rates even when everyone knows that that money won't come back, and then it's the lender's fault if they come crying to be saved otherwise they will bring everyone down.
That is why Greece was saved, because those entities who had lended money to Greece so easily couldn't cope with Greece defaulting. That's why it was saved three times. That hopeless country who's so hated by the rich north. Why does the north keep saving Greece, or any other southern country, making their citizen ripe with anger? Have you ever wondered?
So did the lenders when they continued pouring money in a bottomless pit. Who's going to pay for the lender's errors? You are already paying, and you will continue to do so.
Except, I can't find the ones who haven't acted like morons, or like selfish bast**ds.
It's ingrained in the Dutch society to collect money from tax evaders worldwide, then. And then going on saying that they earned it. It this what you are saying? Racism works both ways.
I'd say that like Greece now has to change completely, or stay poor and desperate as it is now, so do some countries who are rich and have become rich by greedily pushing other people into despair.
Yes! Then why have they been lent money even when it was freakishly clear they couldn't repay the loans? Why has the situation been brought to a point where Greece couldn't default lest the entire continent would have defaulted together with it?
Whose fault is that?
Is that Greece's fault if nobody stopped lending them easy money? Really? And that applies to all countries.
Europe is crumbling because a series of major errors have occured. But it is not like the errors were all on one side, crucifying the good ones. Greed is the answer to both the self-eating, corrupt south and the hypocrital, whitewashed-tomb north.
I know how banks work. As do we all. I know I shouldn't borrow money I can't pay back and have a living standard I can't sustain. Are banks bastards? Yes of course. Does that excuse the people who decided that working hard and saving cash was for idiots? No.
The reason is that a) they're not as productive as other countries and b) decided to join a union where they have to compete with the top runners economy wise. Both A and B were choices, their own choices. I'm not going to pay for their bad choices.
Also: how is it racism to say "Germany has a really well working economy and Greece does fuck all". Always the same with progressives....
The reason is that a) they're not as productive as other countries and b) decided to join a union where they have to compete with the top runners economy wise. Both A and B were choices, their own choices. I'm not going to pay for their bad choices.
Also: how is it racism to say "Germany has a really well working economy and Greece does fuck all". Always the same with progressives....
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FWIW:
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Is your mind made up on that issue?
About that:
What was that bit about "working hard and saving cash was for idiots" again?
So they all imported more than they exported by 20-200% and Portugal has to share places with the likes of Bosnia and Uruguay. All 3 their GDP per capita is around 30ish k, meanwhile Germany's, Netherland's, Denmark's GDP per cap hovers around 46k.
You're not really helping your point.
And about saving: "bad economy affects your savings", no shit. On top of that, taxes are also savings.
You're not really helping your point.
And about saving: "bad economy affects your savings", no shit. On top of that, taxes are also savings.
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SirEdward
Well-Known Member
I think you don't know how banks work, or you haven't listened to me.
I ask 100 euro to a bank, they assess my risk and give me... say... 10% interest. Ok.
If I ask for 100 euro -more-, before having repaid my first 100 euro, they won't ask me 10%, but 20% interest.
If I then ask 100 euro -more-, again without repaying the previous debts, they might decide to ask me 30% interest.
But at some point they won't lend me any more money.
Because they know I wouldn't be able to repay them, or it would be too risky. And they have to minimize risk.
Now, here you have banks who lent money at low rates, then lent more money at low rates, then lent even more money at the same low rate. Because Europe was guaranteeing for everything.
Except, when things crashed down, the banks were in dire difficulties, and so they asked Europe intervention. Europe had to save Greece to avoid a general collapse of the major lenders.
So you and me, we have paid for part of Greece's debts, with public money, because the real (ir)responsible that shouldn't have lent Greece money in the first place couldn't reapy all nor ending up busted.
Problem is, just as Greece hasn't changed their way so much, so don't those other lenders, and they will come back crying for other money from you and me.
THIS is why Europe is seriously in danger. Because the corrupts continued to receive money from the greedy.
I instist, this is too selfish, most of all speaking from a country who made part of its fortune by allowing huge, continental tax-evasion and making southern countries even less competitive that they already were.
Either we work together or we are doomed. And "together" doesn't mean "solely for my own goals".
Again I know how banks work. I know it's a shit system. I also know to not eat the forbidden fruit, so to speak.
I'm happy to help people, it's in fact what I do for a living, but when push comes to shove I'll help people who put in the effort to help themselves. And if some country chooses, as a whole, that paying taxes is for idiots and to retire at 50 then they're not helping themselves, they're being slackers.
And again, one of the main issues is them joining the EU (which I stated pages ago) that forces them to compete with Germany and other well running economies. Normally (s)lacking countries can compensate through inflation but being part of the euro forces them into a bond, a bond they can't sustain. Yet they were pulled in to the union.... why! I'll tell you why, because of left wing EUSSR SD tendencies amongst politicians and because Germany needed a way to cool down their currency without having to bleed for it themselves.
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The EU as it is, with all its stupid and silly undemocratic rules and the countries that it took on board is fcked. It needs a reset, it needs to stop having idiots at the helm who dream of a socialist super state. But a reset isn't going to happen and thus the next best thing is to leave the sinking ship. You can't trust politicians and you can't trust bankers and those are the exact two that LOVE the current EU.
I'm happy to help people, it's in fact what I do for a living, but when push comes to shove I'll help people who put in the effort to help themselves. And if some country chooses, as a whole, that paying taxes is for idiots and to retire at 50 then they're not helping themselves, they're being slackers.
And again, one of the main issues is them joining the EU (which I stated pages ago) that forces them to compete with Germany and other well running economies. Normally (s)lacking countries can compensate through inflation but being part of the euro forces them into a bond, a bond they can't sustain. Yet they were pulled in to the union.... why! I'll tell you why, because of left wing EUSSR SD tendencies amongst politicians and because Germany needed a way to cool down their currency without having to bleed for it themselves.
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The EU as it is, with all its stupid and silly undemocratic rules and the countries that it took on board is fcked. It needs a reset, it needs to stop having idiots at the helm who dream of a socialist super state. But a reset isn't going to happen and thus the next best thing is to leave the sinking ship. You can't trust politicians and you can't trust bankers and those are the exact two that LOVE the current EU.
Up to 200% more imports than exports? You need a maths lesson.
Spain: imported $42.5B more than it exported, total exports of $299B: 14.21%
Portugal: imported $16.4B more than it exported, total exports of $63.1B: 25.99%
Greece: imported $27.6B more than it exported, total exports of $33.2B: 83.13%
My point is that the South Europeans are not the lazy, dim-witted never-do-wells that you say they are.
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I hadn't read that earlier. Confirms my other point, though: you're just a troll.
Greece imported 200% (roughly) of what they exported
Their GDP per cap is 60-75% of what the listed other countries have, given that they're using the same currency that's not sustainable. Everyone who can do maths and has a basic understanding of economics knows that's not sustainable, yet they joined the EU anyway. For the reasons I mentioned earlier (and have been mentioning throughout this thread). Feel free to come up with other valid reasons if you want to.
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Let me put it this way. if you're all so happy about the whole EU as it is then you won't mind that the people who aren't happy with it leave. I mean, those idiots are wrong anyway, who needs them. Right?
Their GDP per cap is 60-75% of what the listed other countries have, given that they're using the same currency that's not sustainable. Everyone who can do maths and has a basic understanding of economics knows that's not sustainable, yet they joined the EU anyway. For the reasons I mentioned earlier (and have been mentioning throughout this thread). Feel free to come up with other valid reasons if you want to.
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Let me put it this way. if you're all so happy about the whole EU as it is then you won't mind that the people who aren't happy with it leave. I mean, those idiots are wrong anyway, who needs them. Right?
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