NBC/CBS reject "Kill the Ground Zero Mosque" ad

LeVeL said:
I agree that there should be a mosque built near Ground Zero. I have yet to say that all Muslims are terrorists and that "they" will dance around Ground Zero in cheer.


All religions are retarded, imo, and I wouldn't want to see a Church, Synagogue, or Buddhist temple at Ground Zero. However, I think a Mosque deserves special treatment in this case.


Well you're exaggerating but I see your point. To me its just disrespectful to build a Mosque near Ground Zero, that's all.
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Either your first point is a typo or you don't know what you're trying to say.
 
tigger said:
What are your concerns about a mosque near Ground Zero, exactly?
Why? Islam didn't destroy the World Trade Towers.
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I just find it disrespectful. To me its like hanging a German flag in a synagogue - no, of course not every German is a nazi, but it still brings up bad memories/connotations. I couldn't care less if they built a mosque somewhere else, but just not in close proximity to Ground Zero.


deathrazor said:
Either your first point is a typo or you don't know what you're trying to say.
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Whoops, my bad. Typed that right after getting back from work dead tired. Fixed it.
 
Well, if the Synagogue was in Germany...I don't think it would be an issue.
 
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Not all Muslims are terrorists, just like not all Southern Baptists are members of the Ku Klux Klan. Saying Islam declared war on the United States on 9/11 is the same as saying the Vatican declared war on the UK during the Troubles.
 
LeVeL said:
I just find it disrespectful. To me its like hanging a German flag in a synagogue - no, of course not every German is a nazi, but it still brings up bad memories/connotations. I couldn't care less if they built a mosque somewhere else, but just not in close proximity to Ground Zero.
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I understand your point and agree with it to a degree, and it could mean the builders of said mosques are being insensitive, and possibly to victims of the attack, being very cruel. I'll give you all that, but it has nothing to do with whether they have a legal right to build there or not. They could build a giant church of scientology or a giant sign that just said "fuck you" in capital letters, but it's still their right to build there.

And of course, the ad is completely ridiculous at attempting racial villification. It's also completely transparent. "They... [flashes image of terrorist] want to build a mosque..." bullshit. That's generalization and racial villification.
 
LeVeL said:
I was looking at the general message which was regarding the mosque at a specific location.
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So, we'll go with monumentally ignorant, then. Right.

LeVeL said:
I just find it disrespectful. To me its like hanging a German flag in a synagogue - no, of course not every German is a nazi, but it still brings up bad memories/connotations. I couldn't care less if they built a mosque somewhere else, but just not in close proximity to Ground Zero.
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You sound like that idiot at the city meeting in Manhattan who said "letting them build this mosque would be like letting the Japanese build a memorial to Kamikazis at Pearl Harbor!".

And this "rational bigotry" you keep trying to espouse makes you no better than the guys who made this ad. Instead of just coming out and saying "GET THESE RAGHEADS OUT OF MY COUNTRY" like they do, you're trying to appeal to xenophobia by saying "look, I know these Muslims didn't blow up the WTC, but the guys who did it were Muslims, so it's just disrespectful for them to be around the WTC site". The disconnect from logic is staggering, and leads me to believe you actually do agree with everything in that ad.

Even breaking down your own example in that last post; "look, I know you weren't a Nazi, and that's not a Nazi Germany flag, but Nazi's were German, so you can't display that in here."

Oh, and way to Godwin the thread.
 
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I think the ad itself is outrageous. It is extreme and entirely unacceptable. If you replaced "Islam" with "Jew" or "Black" not only would there be no question that it wouldn't be aired, we would have massive protests in the street about the fact that the commercial was even made.

Certainly there's a concern that a cultural center could become a shrine to "look how the infidels were punished." Depending upon who you talk to, the level of concern varies.

In my opinion, the only option open is to allow the facility to be built (as long as the size, height, etc., fits within the building guidelines of the area). Let it stand as a monument to the American spirit that, despite the attacks of 9/11, we remain a country of tolerance, equality, and justice.

Should this cultural center become a monument to hatred -- and I fervently hope it does not -- then it can be dealt with on that basis. But we cannot allow fear and hate to drive our decisions.

Steve
 
phoenixsac said:
Not all Muslims are terrorists, just like not all Southern Baptists are members of the Ku Klux Klan. Saying Islam declared war on the United States on 9/11 is the same as saying the Vatican declared war on the UK during the Troubles.
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I agree.


freeferrarisdonotexist said:
I understand your point and agree with it to a degree, and it could mean the builders of said mosques are being insensitive, and possibly to victims of the attack, being very cruel. I'll give you all that, but it has nothing to do with whether they have a legal right to build there or not. They could build a giant church of scientology or a giant sign that just said "fuck you" in capital letters, but it's still their right to build there.
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This case is more about morality than it is legality.



And Dogbert, do you enjoy putting words in my mouth and twisting everything I say the wrong way, or does that just happen naturally?
 
From this thread...
LeVeL said:
I've seen dominican, puerto rican, albanian, british, russian, confederate, brazilian etc etc etc etc flags on cars. How many have I found offensive? NOT. A. SINGLE. MOTHER. FUCKING. ONE.
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Now let me state for the record, I do not find the confederate flag offensive and if people want to display it...I couldn't care less. But given your line of thinking regarding the mosque (community center) at ground zero and German flags by synagogues. Why not share the same outrage for confederate flags considering the negative association with blacks?
 
LeVeL said:
And Dogbert, do you enjoy putting words in my mouth and twisting everything I say the wrong way, or does that just happen naturally?
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Okay, then explain to the class why Muslims opening a community center near the WTC is "disrespectful" and a mosque around the site "deserves special treatment".

NOTE: If your answer ends up being "look, I know these Muslims didn't blow up the WTC, but the guys who did it were Muslims, so it's just disrespectful for them to be around the WTC site", I'll accept your apology for accusing me of putting words in your mouth.
 
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Firecat said:
From this thread...


Now let me state for the record, I do not find the confederate flag offensive and if people want to display it...I couldn't care less. But given your line of thinking regarding the mosque (community center) at ground zero and German flags by synagogues. Why not share the same outrage for confederate flags considering the negative association with blacks?
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I don't find the German flag offensive either. My friends have one at their house, above the fireplace, and I couldn't care less. Since you brought up the confederate flag specifically - I would be against such flag being hung across the street from an NAACP office or in a primarily African American neighborhood, seeing as that would be highly disrespectful. I also don't have any issue with Mosques - there is one about five minutes from my house and it really doesn't bother me one bit; like I said, I just find it disrespectful to build one in the particular location being discussed.
 
Dogbert said:
Okay, then explain to the class why Muslims opening a community center near the WTC is "disrespectful" and a mosque around the site "deserves special treatment".

NOTE: If your answer ends up being "look, I know these Muslims didn't blow up the WTC, but the guys who did it were Muslims, so it's just disrespectful for them to be around the WTC site", I'll accept your apology for accusing me of putting words in your mouth.
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Right, because I clearly said that Muslims should not come anywhere near Ground Zero :rolleyes: Apparently I'm also "appealing to the xenophobia" by using a creative way to say "GET THESE RAGHEADS OUT OF MY COUNTRY". You would make a great politician... or maybe a decent author - you have a unique ability to hear one thing and interpret it in your own way.

That said, you have to be monumentally ignorant in order to require the explanation that you demanded. Would you also like me to explain why a swastika on a synagogue would be disrespectful?
 
LeVeL said:
I don't find the German flag offensive either. My friends have one at their house, above the fireplace, and I couldn't care less. Since you brought up the confederate flag specifically - I would be against such flag being hung across the street from an NAACP office or in a primarily African American neighborhood, seeing as that would be highly disrespectful. I also don't have any issue with Mosques - there is one about five minutes from my house and it really doesn't bother me one bit; like I said, I just find it disrespectful to build one in the particular location being discussed.
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I think this is where the disconnect exists. Across a street, not okay. What if the flag is 2 blocks away? The mosque/community center is not being built on top of ground zero, or next to ground zero. Like I said in my earlier post, it's all too arbitrary.
 
LeVeL said:
Right, because I clearly said that Muslims should not come anywhere near Ground Zero :rolleyes: Apparently I'm also "appealing to the xenophobia" by using a creative way to say "GET THESE RAGHEADS OUT OF MY COUNTRY". You would make a great politician... or maybe a decent author - you have a unique ability to hear one thing and interpret it in your own way.

That said, you have to be monumentally ignorant in order to require the explanation that you demanded. Would you also like me to explain why a swastika on a synagogue would be disrespectful?
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That's not the same thing. The Mosque won't be flying the flag of the Taliban or Al Qaeda. The German flag analogy was much better.

Once again, on an emotional level, I find this disrespectful or at least.... dammit the word escapes me.... there's a really good word for what I want to say here... basically it doesn't take into consideration peoples' feelings. However, how can we disallow this when no one would object if it was a Christian church?
 
I think no religious structure should be built around Ground Zero, people from all walks of life were killed in the attack, suffering affects all regardless of race, religion, creed etc and thus Ground Zero should be a place of solace for those who have had died, and humanity as a whole. Not a specific monument to a specific person/peoples but a monument to humanity.

My two cents.
 
LeVeL said:
Right, because I clearly said that Muslims should not come anywhere near Ground Zero :rolleyes:
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...
LeVeL said:
That there should not be an Islamic structure erected at Ground Zero. I don't think any religious structure should be built there but especially not a Mosque.
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LeVeL said:
However, I think a Mosque deserves special treatment in this case.
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LeVeL said:
To me its just disrespectful to build a Mosque near Ground Zero, that's all.
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So you think Muslims shouldn't build a mosque near ground zero, and you think it deserves special treatment to the "freedom of religion" clause in the First Amendment because it's "just disrespectful", but you haven't actually explained why it's disrespectful yet.

You would have been perfectly fine and justified in saying "no religious structures should be built there" and ending it there, but you went on to say that mosques deserve "special treatment"... without explaining why they deserve "special treatment" in this case.

So, fine. I'll stop trying to infer what you actually mean by all this if you actually explain it.
 
LeVeL said:
It certainly is and this is where it just boils down to personal opinion. I think two blocks is too close; others think its fine.
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Do you know how big two Manhattan blocks are or could be depending on where the facility is actually placed?
 
/facepalm

Let's see if you manage to understand this statement without needing a further explanation like you do with most things: I wouldn't want a Buddhist temple across the street from my house, yet I don't care one bit if Buddhist monks walk past my house every so often. See, I never said that I want to forbid Muslims from going near Ground Zero; I just said I don't want to see a Mosque in its vicinity.

This next part is redundant, as I think its pretty obvious why the construction of an Islamic Mosque near Ground Zero might be disrespectful, but I guess it doesn't get across to everyone. Muslim terrorists declared a "holy war" on the western world and launched at attack on the United States, killing almost 3000 people. (I really hope you're still following this and don't need further explanation.) Now Muslims (and no, I am NOT saying that every "raghead", as you put it, if a terrorist and/or wants to kill Americans) want to build an Islamic structure in close proximity to the site of the aforementioned attack. There is a clear association between the attacks and the religion, even though I think we can all agree that we cant label all Muslims as terrorists. Still with me? I'll even repeat myself, just for you: a) for the millionth time (maybe you'll finally get it), Muslims are not terrorists; b) the terrorists in questions (9/11) were Muslim; c) its disrespectful to 9/11 victims to have a Muslim place of worship so close to Ground Zero. I really hope I haven't confused you yet. Think about the example I mentioned earlier about hanging a German flag across the street from a synagogue and maybe you'll get it (by the way, before you accuse me of calling all Germans Jew-hating Nazis, that is NOT what I am saying at all).


And after that unnecessary, in my opinion, history lesson, I'm off to do more important things. I'll check back in a few hours.
 
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